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  1. #51
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Qreus: In response to the send made that my computer failed to quote.

    Setting aside my sarcastic 2000 year old remark.. To propose that they were kind, equal people that showed equality to women as much as men upheld standards as such back in the day and now they're as disastrous as they are.. It's almost more of an insult to their culture than anything I've said. They took 10 steps back wards, and none forward. They were intelligent enough to recognize men and women being equal, but then became retarded and now they take on 2 or 3 wives, work them in the fields, trade them, etc.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Qreus: In response to the send made that my computer failed to quote.

    Setting aside my sarcastic 2000 year old remark.. To propose that they were kind, equal people that showed equality to women as much as men upheld standards as such back in the day and now they're as disastrous as they are.. It's almost more of an insult to their culture than anything I've said. They took 10 steps back wards, and none forward. They were intelligent enough to recognize men and women being equal, but then became retarded and now they take on 2 or 3 wives, work them in the fields, trade them, etc.
    I won't disagree with you there.

    The reason I was quick to jump on your comment is that I just have issues when people equate current state of Islam (in most Middle-East regions) with the religion having been this way...always. That is false, and I just wanted to clear that up. Every religion has had distasteful (towards humanity as a whole) interpretations of their teachings. Christianity not being exempted in history either. Hence, I fully sympathize with your bolded.


    Btw, not just Islam take more than one wife, and work them....see Mormons. (not that I think you're insinuating that)

    Lastly, thanks for clearing up the quoting issues, I was getting paranoid about why you wouldn't quote me in any of your responses to me.

  3. #53
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Tell me, play it out for me....what 'facts' might you be looking for to substantiate my idea that such nations are bidding their time to leave USA dry and hanging, if and when, they get to a power position to take each other as allies without needing to rely on USA & Co?

    Just guess...what would these 'facts' be? Like government documents from such countries outlining this great wish of theirs? And, why I haven't found them?

    In order to ask for 'facts', you must first acknowledge the plausibility of 'facts' being applicable to such a hypothetical situation of the future.

    All we can do is infer from history, and the current international political climate.

    Regardless, I'm really interested in your justification....

    Neither does China really. What's your point? India, as Pirate Putin pointed out, likes to keep USA close because its surrounded by 'enemies', Pakistan to the north, Bangladesh to the east, and Sri Lanka to the south. Esp. with the Kashmir conflict with Pakistan. And, for the USA, India is a really solid geo-political ally. You can't stabilize Afganistan without considering Pakistan. And, you cannot hope to stabilize Pakistan without considering India.

    India also has the third largest Muslim population out of any countries in the world, and its pretty chummy with Iran too. And, recently have started to build a relationship with Israel. India is a key piece to 'negotiating' peace in the middle-east. Which, I don't think I have to outline for you, would have benefits for the USA.

    India isn't sending out positive tantric vibes towards USA because it's the 'right' *feel good* mushy thing to do. It knows its worth to the USA, it knows the chips it's holding against USA, and the chips USA holds over it, esp. with China (one if its main contender for the rise of developing nations)...India is bidding its time, nice and slow. It is securing its position as an invaluable 'asset' to USA.

    USA & Co - which includes Britain. If push came to shove, and India has secured itself into the position its slowly trying to move towards, esp. with a role in the Middle-East 'resolution', and, a stabilizing relationship with China....heck YA, India wouldn't bat an eye to turn on USA & Co.

    India has not forgotten Britain, I can guarantee you that, as an Indian myself. It was only 61 years ago.

    It's pretty intuitive, my idea........You strong-arm others around you long enough, tell them to DO this, DON"T do that, because you said so, because you have the power to do so, you bully, overlord, so, when it comes to a time of crisis, you cannot expect them to save you, out of the goodness of their heart. They'll help see you fall further down the well.

    [that is why in my OP, all the countries/nations, I've outlined, not only are they rising global influences, but, if you trace their history and political mileu, there's quite a lot of 'bad blood' between them and USA & Co. regardless of the present faces they may present to USA & Co. due to international political diplomacy - all nations are playing a game to secure No. #1, themselves....don't be fooled by present complacency]

    Ya, the epitome of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Sucks to be above USA, when the shit-storm hits. The idealist in me thinks Obama, if he plays his diplomatic cards right, just, just might be able to change the course.
    Indeed it is true that many countries as well as many religions want to be dominant.

    And this is why my country supports liberal democracy.

    The essence of liberal democracy is the limitation of power.

    And the opposite, of course, is totalitarianism which is the unlimited use of power.

    One advantage of liberal democracy is that it guarantees freedom of religion.

    And through the separation of religion and the state, guarantees no religion will dominate.

    These are part of the foundations of Western civilization.

    And just a only a poem can defeat another poem, only a civilization can defeat another civilization.

    If this is true, it leave only two options - Chinese civilization or the Indian civilization.

    If for no other reason, China will always be limited by its language of images.

    And India will always be limited because it dismembered itself during Partition.

    Also two totalitarians, National Socialism and Communism have already been defeated. So we can reasonably expect the Islamist totalitarians to also be defeated - although it will take perhaps more than a few generations.

    Liberal democracy is an idea whose time has come.

    And the religious rape of women will be fought until, like slavery, it is abolished.

  4. #54
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    And the cultural beef is mainly about Americans eating beef.
    Bah, I was going to make that joke, but it seems you beat me to it. I was going to say, "Actually I don't think most Indians would participate in much of anything involving beef at all," but leave it to INTJ say it more succinctly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    The Russians 'tried to help' them? America is "going" to help (because they've never intervened previously? News to me). Either you are ignorant to the political history or willfully ignoring it, which would equate to propaganda on your part.

    Huh....
    He also thinks there have been zero gun-related deaths in Australia since they banned private ownership of most firearms in 1996. I linked him to some stats showing otherwise and never got a response.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #55
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Sorry I gave you too much credit that you actually had a point in response to me, rather than play off jokes because there's nothing substantial you could have countered. I grasped at the Russia point. Like brittle straws.

    My bad. I always give more credit than due.

    EDIT: yours, just like USA's, ego are blinding you from seeing very key forecasts of the future of international politics and the role other nations would want USA to play, if USA didn't have its present $$, military & technological advances it currently holds. The cookie is crumbling though...
    Yes, I am blinded by my ego and so is my imperialist country.
    Yada yada yada ... (waving red flag of freedom)

    I don't post on this board to participate in flame wars. There are other ways for me to entertain myself. But you go on with your bad self, maestro politico.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    He also thinks there have been zero gun-related deaths in Australia since they banned private ownership of most firearms in 1996. I linked him to some stats showing otherwise and never got a response.
    As we share the same birthday, the least I can do is respond.

    Our claim is that since guns were banned, we have had no gun massacres.

    And the very reason we banned guns was to stop gun massacres. And so far, keeping our fingers crossed, it has worked.

    Of course criminals can and do get hold of guns. In fact just yesterday, the police confiscated an assault rifle capable of firing 700 rounds a minute, according to the newspaper.

    But what is most interesting is that this is the first AK-47 confiscated in New South Wales. So we can presume there are not many out there.

    Of course we are fortunate that we don't have a gun culture, and we are fortunate that we are a functioning democracy where the people can change the law if we want to.

    And the decision to ban guns was one of the most popular decisions made by our Prime Minister in Parliament. And absolutely no one is going to change them back.

    However I am very happy to respond to my fellow birthday boy.

  7. #57
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    As we share the same birthday, the least I can do is respond.

    Our claim is that since guns were banned, we have had no gun massacres.

    And the very reason we banned guns was to stop gun massacres. And so far, keeping our fingers crossed, it has worked.

    Of course criminals can and do get hold of guns. In fact just yesterday, the police confiscated an assault rifle capable of firing 700 rounds a minute, according to the newspaper.

    But what is most interesting is that this is the first AK-47 confiscated in New South Wales. So we can presume there are not many out there.

    Of course we are fortunate that we don't have a gun culture, and we are fortunate that we are a functioning democracy where the people can change the law if we want to.

    And the decision to ban guns was one of the most popular decisions made by our Prime Minister in Parliament. And absolutely no one is going to change them back.

    However I am very happy to respond to my fellow birthday boy.
    Umm right but, your gun violence is actually UP since the bans occurred. Membership in the Australian Sporting Shooters Association has increased significantly, as well--are you sure it's that popular? Google for some stats and see for yourself.

    Whether or not the killings occur in big sprees ("massacres") or smaller intervals, there are still MORE of them overall.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #58
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    The various peoples and nations of Afghanistan, have always adhered to chauvnistic tribal cultures, with or without islam, chauvanism has existed and thrived for centuries in Afghanistan. To understand this you have to look at the tribal cultures of central eurasia(central asia) from the antiquity, where women always played a subordinate role, they were treated like "cattle" by almost all tribes, be they turkic, iranic or mongol.

    The introduction of radical islam by no means changed anything to a significant degree as the chauvnistic attitude was already there from the start. What we see today is conceptualization of chauvinism, which is what most people find despicable and offensive, in terms of their owns civilizations moral standards and beliefs(no point in trying to judge using western standard's).

    You also have to look at the history of the nation Afghanistan. It has always been a disunited land of nomadic tribes who inhabited the massive plateau. The region geographically lacks the means to stimulate progression towards a modern state(lack of unity, reduced sterile economy, tribalism), urbanization and intellectualism was only first introduced to certain parts by Alexander the great, and later on to a larger extant by the first Afghan dynasties who united the country.

    Afghanistan itself is a country that lacks proper infrastructure and urbanization. It is a country with few urban centers, secluded tribes and warring factions.

    To remain unbiased and objective, this form of chauvanism can be found pretty much everywhere in the still tribalized socities around the world. The massai F.ex, have a polygamist society where a man can wed wives by the tens(if he materialistically is able to do so), sell females for cattle, force-wed his daughters, even female circumization is practiced as a sexual leverage on women, to keep them under control. You can find such examples pretty much everywhere, provided the place in question hasn't reached a reasonable standard of social development.

    To conclude, i am not surprised at all that Afghanistan is an extremely chauvinistic country in overall, and the fact that it is cordoned by society there to legalize it, does not change this.


    #Qre:us: I dont how you get your skewered ideas. But no one will attack the USA in the near-future. The worst that can happen are political tensions and reprecussions. But full fledged wars , with the pre-text of old unsettled scores are neigh impossible to happen, unless there was a major factor, like a giant screw up, which is highly unlikely, even with the political incompetence of contemporary times.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  9. #59
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post

    Universal Declaration of Human Rights.


    Some questions:

    1) Was it influenced by a heavy western bias?
    2) Has USA, Britain broken these?
    3) Is it hard be taken seriously, when you are the pot calling the kettle black?

    Think carefully now...before you answer.
    1.) Was algebra heavily influenced by an Indian bias? If a concept qualifies as a universal value, it dosn't matter where it originated, only whether its right.
    2.) What country/society hasn't violated the ostensible values on which its identity and legitimacy are based?
    3.) You must not take any person, organization, or entity very seriously...

    The OIC dosn't oppose the UDHR because of Western hypocrisy, it opposes it because they know that the notions of religious freedom, free speech, and equality under the law are in direct conflict with orthodox Islam and its goddamn Shariah law. Why don't you stop hiding behind scapegoats and strawmen, and give some specific examples as to why you are apparently opposed to the UDHR?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Umm right but, your gun violence is actually UP since the bans occurred. Membership in the Australian Sporting Shooters Association has increased significantly, as well--are you sure it's that popular? Google for some stats and see for yourself.

    Whether or not the killings occur in big sprees ("massacres") or smaller intervals, there are still MORE of them overall.
    Sure, we can argue over the details, but finally, it is a question of ethos.

    We have rejected, as a nation, the ethos of gun culture.

    We don't share, and don't want to share, your gun ethos.

    We banned guns after a gun massacre at Port Arthur in Tasmania with the explicit purpose of avoiding any further gun massacres.

    And so far it has worked in that we have had no further gun massacres.

    But the national decision we have made is at the gut level - we reject guns.

    We do recognise this is a rejection of your gun ethos and your gun culture - however we are an independent sovereign nation and we make our own decisions.

    And I am sure you can accept that.

    And anyway, we are very happy with the decision we have made.

    And sure, you can keep your guns, but don't want 'em.

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