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  1. #61
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Not sure you're understanding them, dude. These people don't give a fart in a high wind for property rights.
    ...if the all-knowing, always benevolent, always wise and always correct government deems it necessary then we should just accept that the taking away of our rights is for our own good.

    how could the government ever be wrong and not anticipate any unintended consequenses? how could the governemnt, in all its wisdom and power, ever lead us astray?

    i for one would give all i own, all i can create and all i will earn to the government if they said it was for my own good... and while i'm at it, i think everyone else should do the same.

    self-interest is tearing at the moral fabric of our fragile society and should be eradicated wherever possible. only the good of the state and the good of its people as a whole should enter into any consideration of government power and its allocation. acting in ones own self-interest often is in direct conflict with the good of the people -- man, left to look after his own interests, will only ever do harm, never good.

    while we're on the subject of government, i think there are too many deliberations about how the country should best be run. we shoud eliminate any dissenters. what are dissenters doing but obstructing legislation that will benefit the people. government always knows best; if there are government officials that believe otherwise they are only undermining the people's confidence in government and thereby hurting the people. although, even after most dissent has been eliminated there still might be some within the majority who disagree on certain points. i suppose the solution to that is to simply put the power to decide in the hands of one: a wise and knowledgable person, morally superior to the masses and with a will strong enough to accomplish the difficult task of consolidating power and executing the will of the government for the good of the people.

    the good of the people -- this is, of course, the ultimate goal. people sometime, often, have difficulty in seeing the best path and so it must be shown to them. who else has the knowledge, power and wisdom but the government.

    -comrade mikael
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    ...if the all-knowing, always benevolent, always wise and always correct government deems it necessary then we should just accept that the taking away of our rights is for our own good.

    how could the government ever be wrong and not anticipate any unintended consequenses? how could the governemnt, in all its wisdom and power, ever lead us astray?

    i for one would give all i own, all i can create and all i will earn to the government if they said it was for my own good... and while i'm at it, i think everyone else should do the same.

    self-interest is tearing at the moral fabric of our fragile society and should be eradicated wherever possible. only the good of the state and the good of its people as a whole should enter into any consideration of government power and its allocation. acting in ones own self-interest often is in direct conflict with the good of the people -- man, left to look after his own interests, will only ever do harm, never good.

    while we're on the subject of government, i think there are too many deliberations about how the country should best be run. we shoud eliminate any dissenters. what are dissenters doing but obstructing legislation that will benefit the people. government always knows best; if there are government officials that believe otherwise they are only undermining the people's confidence in government and thereby hurting the people. although, even after most dissent has been eliminated there still might be some within the majority who disagree on certain points. i suppose the solution to that is to simply put the power to decide in the hands of one: a wise and knowledgable person, morally superior to the masses and with a will strong enough to accomplish the difficult task of consolidating power and executing the will of the government for the good of the people.

    the good of the people -- this is, of course, the ultimate goal. people sometime, often, have difficulty in seeing the best path and so it must be shown to them. who else has the knowledge, power and wisdom but the government.

    -comrade mikael
    Sounds like the party platform for fascism, or president Wilson.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I don't know about that. Forced labor at the point of a gun is not exactly far off from fascism/National Socialism.
    It was a lighthearted rib that a Nazi comparison was mentioned in the very first post.

    To the point I think this would be political suicide that results in massive civil disobedience. Americans do not like being told what to do. I also don't trust the source in any case.

  4. #64
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Frankly, when I've read that Obama=Nazism or even Fascism, I stopped reading this thread. Or at least, seriously reading it.

    Those libertarian loonies should be allowed to handle more serious matters sometimes.

    It's so fucking childish and immature!

    Well, you know the saying: To be ridiculous never kills! :yim_rolling_on_the_

    What kind of weed are they smoking? It must be a very strong breed!

    ---

    Anyway, I'm sure that according to Risen & co, we Europeans live under a ruthless Nazi tyranny, which is called Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Ah!... the awful word!

    So really, I'd say like our dear Magic Sponge: Who is the pragmatic??

    Those crazy libertarians: they sound like fanatics, like ayatollahs, and they're preaching in the desert; they're so far away from the REAL world. But the funniest part is that they don't seem to realize how insane their arguments are.

    It's so laughable.

    (The power of ideologies)

    ---

    I will discuss serious matters only when they begin to be serious and more knowledgeable. But in the meantime, why should I bother to answer this?
    It's a complete waste of time. I think many people here should be able to grow up a little bit, I mean politically. There's no point to stay at the age of adolescence forever.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #65
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Frankly, when I've read that Obama=Nazism or even Fascism, I stopped reading this thread. Or at least, seriously reading it.

    Those libertarian loonies should be allowed to handle more serious matters sometimes.

    It's so fucking childish and immature!

    Well, you know the saying: To be ridiculous never kills! :yim_rolling_on_the_

    What kind of weed are they smoking? It must be a very strong breed!

    ---

    Anyway, I'm sure that according to Risen & co, we Europeans live under a ruthless Nazi tyranny, which is called Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Ah!... the awful word!

    So really, I'd say like our dear Magic Sponge: Who is the pragmatic??

    Those crazy libertarians: they sound like fanatics, like ayatollahs, and they're preaching in the desert; they're so far away from the REAL world. But the funniest part is that they don't seem to realize how insane their arguments are.

    It's so laughable.

    (The power of ideologies)

    ---

    I will discuss serious matters only when they begin to be serious and more knowledgeable. But in the meantime, why should I bother answer this?
    It's a complete waste of time. I think many people here should be able to grow up a little bit, I mean politically. There's no point to stay at the age of adolescence forever.
    I generally agree with you but I think you are overlooking one thing.

    In US everything is black and white and in many cases there is no gray.
    The thing is that this can be started as good idea but it can be turn into a monster with time.
    The problem is that America is not able to restitute something that can be called healthy socialism. Their culture does not support this mentality.


    Their entire culture is full of nonsense. Is there any chance that you remember the "Obama the saint" story?
    To us that is/was funny but the thing is that large number of Americans were actually thinking like this.


    The problem is that you are increasing the level of organisation while there is little of critical thinking in the system. Which inevitably leads towards the totalitarism.

  6. #66
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Frankly, when I've read that Obama=Nazism or even Fascism, I stopped reading this thread. Or at least, seriously reading it.

    Those libertarian loonies should be allowed to handle more serious matters sometimes.

    It's so fucking childish and immature!

    Well, you know the saying: To be ridiculous never kills! :yim_rolling_on_the_

    What kind of weed are they smoking? It must be a very strong breed!

    ---

    Anyway, I'm sure that according to Risen & co, we Europeans live under a ruthless Nazi tyranny, which is called Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Socialism!

    Ah!... the awful word!

    So really, I'd say like our dear Magic Sponge: Who is the pragmatic??

    Those crazy libertarians: they sound like fanatics, like ayatollahs, and they're preaching in the desert; they're so far away from the REAL world. But the funniest part is that they don't seem to realize how insane their arguments are.

    It's so laughable.

    (The power of ideologies)

    ---

    I will discuss serious matters only when they begin to be serious and more knowledgeable. But in the meantime, why should I bother answer this?
    It's a complete waste of time. I think many people here should be able to grow up a little bit, I mean politically. There's no point to stay at the age of adolescence forever.
    Tell that to the unemployed Islamic adolescent youth that live just on the other side of the tracks of your imenent residency.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #67
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I generally agree with you but I think you are overlooking one thing.

    In US everything is black and white and in many cases there is no gray.
    The thing is that this can be started as good idea but it can be turn into a monster with time.
    The problem is that America is not able to restitute something that can be called healthy socialism. Their culture does not support this mentality.


    Their entire culture is full of nonsense. Is there any chance that you remember the "Obama the saint" story?
    To us that is/was funny but the thing is that large number of Americans were actually thinking like this.


    The problem is that you are increasing the level of organisation while there is little of critical thinking in the system. Which inevitably leads towards the totalitarism.
    BallentineChen put up a link that could very well be the kicker. Take a look at it. There isn't a wholotta black and wite. Just gray area. With the exception of monitary allotment.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  8. #68
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I thought about it a little more.

    There's a problem here, and you could even relate it to type if you want. We (Risen, pure_mercury, and myself) are debating about different thing. I want to analyze this question by looking at whether the policy is good or bad for people -- whether it is wise or not wise. You guys, on the other hand are more interested in how the policy fits in with rules our government has previously set forth, as issue that I could care less about.

    Second, I'm tired of conflict, even though I got sucked into it at first. I would much rather have a civil exchange than a debate filled with ad hominems and dishonesty, and to be honest, I don't think we're capable of that.

  9. #69
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post

    I'm tired of conflict, even though I got sucked into it at first. I would much rather have a civil exchange than a debate filled with ad hominems and dishonesty, and to be honest, I don't think we're capable of that.
    Reads reminiscent of what congress sais all the time when being interviewed by the media.

    Join the croud.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #70
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    I think it's a good initiative... Instead of running around in suburbs and ghettos, kids will be able to get away from bad environments. On top of that, americans need to learn how to work as a team, instead of relying on the extreme libertarianistic capitalism as an ideal. Re-educating the people is an important thing to do.
    You might think you are very successful, but to be honest, the american system is a danger to the rest of the world because of its huge inherent flaws. The recent economic collapse is America's fault, and we all get to suffer for it. You need to be re-educated in terms of how the hell you view the world. And some common sense. Some people are always adverse to change of any kind, and when things need to be done fast, of course the less adaptable citizens will be whining.

    I am not entirely sure if Mr. Obama's intentions are one hundred percent benevolent, but doing something is definitely better than doing nothing. Right now you need change more than anything. What you don't need is an outdated moral system and a whackjob constitution.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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