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  1. #31
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Waa waa. Stop crying.

    I think it's acceptable for a government to do things in the best interests of the people, and to require them to do things that they may not want to do. Taxing people in order to create social programs is also a restriction on your liberty, but it's the price you pay for living here. I have no patience for people like you who have such an infantile view of liberty, only looking out for your own self-interest. Grow up already. Or leave. Whatever.

    Do you even know what the 13th Amendment is? I cannot believe you're actually arguing in favor of involuntary servitude in the 21st Century. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #32
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Agreed. Those who don't value freedom don't deserve it.
    Then the same goes for you. Both of you suffer from the same childish, immature understanding of what liberty really means. You think liberty means being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and want no one, no government to tell you what to do. Do you see how childish this is?

    If you want real freedom, you need to move outside of your narcissistic cocoons and do something for someone else. Otherwise you're a slave to the whims or your unconscious and ego. If the government wants to create a program what would encourage this end, it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Do you even know what the 13th Amendment is? I cannot believe you're actually arguing in favor of involuntary servitude in the 21st Century. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Yes, pure, this is exactly like slavery. Totally makes sense.

    *cracks whip*

  3. #33
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Yes, pure, this is exactly like slavery. Totally makes sense.

    *cracks whip*
    Actually, it is.


    Amendment XIII

    Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.



    So, yeah, it would be unconstitutional and unconscionable. Edahn, people like you are ruining what used to be the freest and best country in the world. There is nothing infantile about standing up for the rights EXPLICITLY written in the U.S. Constitution. Honestly, yours is one of the most un-American, anti-civil rights positions I can imagine anyone taking in this day and age. You really are talking out of your ass.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Then the same goes for you. Both of you suffer from the same childish, immature understanding of what liberty really means. You think liberty means being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and want no one, no government to tell you what to do. Do you see how childish this is?

    If you want real freedom, you need to move outside of your narcissistic cocoons and do something for someone else. Otherwise you're a slave to the whims or your unconscious and ego. If the government wants to create a program what would encourage this end, it should.
    ^
    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Forced charity and forced good works are not equivalent to good works and charity by choice. The latter stems from the character of individuals, the underemphasis of which is and will be the death of this nation.
    Understand the differences between forced and voluntary, and then we can continue this conversation. I'm tired of the utopian prattle of people such as yourself who seem to have this sensational belief that human nature will ever be any different or that we will ever be beyond a "a slave to the whims or your unconscious and ego". THAT, sir, IS CHILDISH. To believe you will somehow curtain human nature through government coercion is the dumbest and greatest fallacy ever produced by this infantile ideology.

    If you want collectivism, I suggest you go to a country that was built on it and embraces it, because it sure as hell isn't this country.

  5. #35
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    liberty means being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and want no one, no government to tell you what to do.

    If you want real freedom, you need to move outside of your narcissistic cocoons and do something for someone else. Otherwise you're a slave to the whims or your unconscious and ego. If the government wants to create a program what would encourage this end, it should.



    Yes, pure, this is exactly like slavery. Totally makes sense.

    *cracks whip*
    Ya, like contribute to the economy rather than end up encarcerated for contributing to the economy because you couln't fulfill "voluntary obligations" because you were contributing to the ecomomy.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  6. #36
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Just a hunch, but i think edahn is playing devils advocate. Couldn't realy be that egotistical.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #37
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Understand the differences between forced and voluntary, and then we can continue this conversation. I'm tired of the utopian prattle of people such as yourself who seem to have this sensational belief that human nature will ever be any different or that we will ever be beyond a "a slave to the whims or your unconscious and ego". THAT, sir, IS CHILDISH. To believe you will somehow curtain human nature through government coercion is the dumbest and greatest fallacy ever produced by this infantile ideology.

    If you want collectivism, I suggest you go to a country that was built on it and embraces it, because it sure as hell isn't this country.
    I don't believe in your depiction of human nature. And I think most neo-liberal and libertarian theories of society are utopia, actually. I'm regarding myself as the pragmatic one here.

    By the way, collectivism can be a really good thing sometimes. Have you ever checked out game theory?

    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Ya, like contribute to the economy rather than end up encarcerated for contributing to the economy because you couln't fulfill "voluntary obligations" because you were contributing to the ecomomy.
    Well, actually, I think part of the problem is how simplistically and narrow-mindedly you think about citizen contribution. It's always about profits and revenues isn't it? God damn community service.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #38
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't believe in your depiction of human nature. And I think most neo-liberal and libertarian theories of society are utopia, actually. I'm regarding myself as the pragmatic one here.

    By the way, collectivism can be a really good thing sometimes. Have you ever checked out game theory?



    Well, actually, I think part of the problem is how simplistically and narrow-mindedly you think about citizen contribution. It's always about profits and revenues isn't it? God damn community service.
    Taxes are bein takin out of that profit. Taxes=citizen contribution. And the community service i and many others do now will be replaced with govt mandated community service due to not bein able to fulfill both (time constraints). Thus turning community service into a politically picked one. Kinda like hitler. But you don't pay taxes or perform community service. Kinda puttin you in the narrow-minded simplistic catagory.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  9. #39
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Just a hunch, but i'm startin to think m/p is playin devils advocate. Take note, both edahn and m/p do not post a mbti preferance label. Gonna guess ESTJ.

    Hell, could even be that i'm takin bait via devils advocate. Honestly, i've taken plenty of bait from XSTJ in the past.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #40
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't believe in your depiction of human nature. And I think most neo-liberal and libertarian theories of society are utopia, actually. I'm regarding myself as the pragmatic one here.

    By the way, collectivism can be a really good thing sometimes. Have you ever checked out game theory?



    Well, actually, I think part of the problem is how simplistically and narrow-mindedly you think about citizen contribution. It's always about profits and revenues isn't it? God damn community service.
    Go, right now, and buy "Capitalism and Freedom" by milton friedman. it should be required reading by anyone who thinks "individualism" is childish.

    1. mandatory service limits your freedom economically in the most obvious sense.
    2. the loss of economic freedom is a straight road to serfdom.
    3. there can be no democracy without economic freedom.
    4. without a democracy, how can you really call yourself free?

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