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  1. #11
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If they have to get their parents' permission, they're going to go underground. This is not new.
    If my children are not allowed to get tylenol at school without my permission, or allowed to go home with a relative without my permission, or allowed to see a pediatrician without my ok they better NEVER be allowed to have an abortion without my permission.

    Without parental permission someone could pressure my child into having an abortion and a clinic could do an abortion without my permission. That, right there, is a definition of nightmare for me.

    I have four girls, I would never, ever want them to be allowed to make such an enormous decision about something like that because some kid decides to take random farm drugs to induce abortion.

    I know the propaganda about abortion and the big evil parents who won't let their children have abortions so we should take away parents having any say in their minor child having an abortion. I really can't believe people think that parents who are doing the right thing should ever have their parental influence taken away because some theoretical person is being pressured by big evil dad to not have an abortion.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    If my children are not allowed to get tylenol at school without my permission, or allowed to go home with a relative without my permission, or allowed to see a pediatrician without my ok they better NEVER be allowed to have an abortion without my permission.

    Without parental permission someone could pressure my child into having an abortion and a clinic could do an abortion without my permission. That, right there, is a definition of nightmare for me.

    I have four girls, I would never, ever want them to be allowed to make such an enormous decision about something like that because some kid decides to take random farm drugs to induce abortion.

    I know the propaganda about abortion and the big evil parents who won't let their children have abortions so we should take away parents having any say in their minor child having an abortion. I really can't believe people think that parents who are doing the right thing should ever have their parental influence taken away because some theoretical person is being pressured by big evil dad to not have an abortion.
    Exactly. Its all been a massive propaganda machine for their skewed reasoning and logic (or lack thereof).

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    The other thing that is sad to me about these situations is that if some of these girls felt like they could face their families without getting disowned or worse, let alone get some emotional/logistical support, they might choose to have the baby rather than abort it. But since they feel they must keep it secret, they see abortion as their only option. I am not pro-abortion; if it were up to me I would prefer unwanted pregnancies be prevented rather than terminated, and accidental ones embraced if at all possible. It's not up to me and I don't think it should be. But we could do a lot to encourage that. Instead we focus on whether mothers should be allowed to have abortions or not, which to me seems like a tremendous missing of the point.
    Word. Yeah.

    Funny how we really miss the point, as a culture, sometimes.

    Again, it seems more about keeping life sanitized and controlled, rather than engaging each other in complex situations.

    I come down semi-firmly on the "keep it safe and legal, but work hard on the other end to make it very rare" side.
    Heck, girl, we will make a P out of you yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    ...without parental permission someone could pressure my child into having an abortion and a clinic could do an abortion without my permission. That, right there, is a definition of nightmare for me.
    Wait... you mean, people FORCE each other to get abortions?
    Sounds sorta spooky to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Exactly. Its all been a massive propaganda machine for their skewed reasoning and logic (or lack thereof).
    Oh dear.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I'm not saying this to offend, but if you went to a Quaker school then your environment did not represent the general population. Most large cities and metropolitan areas tend to be liberal leaning in culture and education (at the public school level, where most kids go). In that situation, kids are taught PLENTY about sex.
    Apparently you're not familiar with Quaker education. They are very liberal. It was, if anything, more open and comprehensive with sex ed than public schools are. And beyond that, I'm not sheltered, I've worked in public schools since I was in a Quaker one myself, so I've been able to compare. The sex ed I got at Quaker school was much more frank than any other form of legitimate sex ed I've heard of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    The culture teaches PLENTY about sex. Sex is VERY open for the current generation of kids. I am of the millennial gen, raised in multiple states, so I know. When it comes to sex ed, the most liberal state I've been in, CA, was BIG on the sex. The whole idea that we rely on school to learn about sex is stupid anyway in the open culture that exists in such areas. We learned about most of sex from our peers, our own sexual experiences, and from the media. Parents gave basic talks, school gave too much info about condoms and such. But at that point it was stuff we already knew. Sex ed to the point where my teacher is telling me what a nut tastes like and the teacher down the hall is potentially displaying first hand how to put on a condom (with a live subject, though this was just a rumor) is too much.
    What's wrong with showing how to put on a condom? Obviously not with a live subject, but as you say that's just a rumor. When I was in school the rumor was that the gym teacher made the girls play butt-bumpers in the showers and I'm pretty sure that wasn't true either.

    I don't want my kids relying on what they learn from peers and their own experiences solely, because that's how shit like "douche with Diet Coke after sex and you can't get pregnant" comes from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    My logic dictates that the more we sexualized the culture becomes, the more bad choices (such as aborting your child with farm chemicals) kids will be open to from its influence, and from the lack of parental guidance so prevalent nowadays. A society with no direction for its youth and no solid foundation of morals and virtues leads to an ever more confused generation of children prone to making bad and extreme choices.
    I don't think receiving a comphrehensive sex ed in school equals being sexualized. It needs to occur in a context of better direction and an ethical foundation, though, I won't disagree with you on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    On the other hand I might argue that statistically the amount of stupid crap kids get into perhaps hasn't changed much since the beginning of the nation. It may only appear worse because it is reported more, and from the various biases exemplified in this topic already (myself included). Still, I think it's beyond question that young kids have way more sex than previous generations of kids did. Where is it leading us? Only time can tell really.
    I don't think all kids are having early/a lot of sex, and more importantly, the ones who don't receive frank and comprehensive sex ed are NOT having less sex.

    Edited to add: you didn't offend me, and I appreciate the discussion.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  5. #15
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Get those kids birth control. Teach them about safe sex, and the danger of STDs.
    Amen
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  6. #16
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    A girl using meds that are meant for a cow is likely. A boy sticking his thingy in an electical outlet to become circumcized is highly doubtful?
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #17
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    I don't know if this has anything to do with an 'overly liberal' society. Women, including very young, unmarried ones, have been getting accidentally pregnant for gajillions of years, and then trying, privately, to end those pregnancies, for gajillions of years. It's not something new.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    I don't know if this has anything to do with an 'overly liberal' society. Women, including very young, unmarried ones, have been getting accidentally pregnant for gajillions of years, and then trying, privately, to end those pregnancies, for gajillions of years. It's not something new.
    Right. The question is if it's happening more than it used to, and to that I argued that it may just be more noticed and out in the open. Many things we do with sex nowadays are things that went on in the old days, but just weren't so out in the open. In the end I think people just need to get back to the basics, instilling sound ethics and values. It's the solid foundation we need to build a stable society.

  9. #19
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    I don't know if this has anything to do with an 'overly liberal' society. Women, including very young, unmarried ones, have been getting accidentally pregnant for gajillions of years, and then trying, privately, to end those pregnancies, for gajillions of years. It's not something new.
    Possible example-A girl doing a back ally abortion because her community will label her with a bad reputation. Or she is just frightened of an overwhelming future. In either case lybrals and conservatives alike have been tryin to welcome a newcomer to the neighborhood. Were the problem could rest is when ideology overwhelms the evoution of the communitys welcomings on going effort.

    And where's daddy in all this? Shouldn't the potential father be just as overwhelmed. Never hear about daddy most of the time.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #20
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    A girl using meds that are meant for a cow is likely. A boy sticking his thingy in an electical outlet to become circumcized is highly doubtful?
    Stay on target, red leader.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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