User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 42

  1. #21
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INTx
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    They decimated the company for personal gain. It's a fundamental breach of their contractual obligations. That nullifies the agreement. Only through smoke and mirrors can they be made to look like victims.
    First, there was no breach of contractual obligations that would permit AIG to simply refuse the bonuses in retro. The management was within their rights to award whatever bonuses they wanted within whatever criteria they wanted, any regulations notwithstanding.

    Second, I'm not saying that the employees that are receiving the bonuses are victims. Nor am I saying they deserve them. But in a civil society we have laws in place to make sure that when obligations are put forward, such as to pay people when promised money, they are met. It's the same reason that the government doesn't shoot people that are extremely unpopular but get through court somehow (OJ Simpson?). It's the reason that people have reasonable confidence that the system won't be overturned on a whim.

    There's already a measure in place that keeps management from being stupid with their money. It's called the company runs out of money and goes into bankruptcy. But in this case the government has blessed AIG with immortality so this stupidity gets to run amok. If the government didn't want the entire package they should have approached the problem from a different angle.

  2. #22
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Seriously, how can any one corporation be THAT important? My stepfather's ATV and Logging businesses are tanking, and could be saved with a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the bailout, but he's not asking for it; the failure is partially his fault for starting a business in the middle of a recession, and partially the fault of steep gas prices. He realizes this.
    Read in full (mostly the bottom half of the first page especially), then get back to me: How AIG Became Too Big to Fail - TIME

    That should make it slightly more clear....
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  3. #23
    Lasting_Pain
    Guest

    Default

    I think the news stations could be covering something more important than 218 million dollars, ie Drug War in Mexico, Skyrocketing Health care, or the extreme Conservative Radio talk show hosts.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    The management was within their rights to award whatever bonuses they wanted within whatever criteria they wanted, any regulations notwithstanding.
    The same law that allowed management to dole out corporate funds to their buddies is now being used to prevent further looting. Where's the problem?

    It's the same reason that the government doesn't shoot people that are extremely unpopular but get through court somehow (OJ Simpson?).
    You're citing an example where a murderer escapes justice because the letter of the law was followed. If anything, it's a glaring example of why blind allegiance to a system is undesirable.

    It's the reason that people have reasonable confidence that the system won't be overturned on a whim.
    The down side is that a corrupted system cannot be corrected quickly because of rigid adherence to poorly thought out principles.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INTx
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    The same law that allowed management to dole out corporate funds to their buddies is now being used to prevent further looting. Where's the problem?
    ++
    You're citing an example where a murderer escapes justice because the letter of the law was followed. If anything, it's a glaring example of why blind allegiance to a system is undesirable.
    ++
    The down side is that a corrupted system cannot be corrected quickly because of rigid adherence to poorly thought out principles.
    Which law, in particular? The latest I've seen is a tentative bill along lines such as "we're giving ourselves the right to veto bonuses owing in companies we bail out".

    I intentionally cited a highly unpopular example to illustrate that civil society can rise above a moment of passion and not breaks its own rules. I don't like that he got away with murder, but I would have liked it even less if the legal system could be overturned on a whim. Do you not see the rather dangerous potential for a gray legal area to develop?

    No system of depth can be corrected quickly.

  6. #26
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Do you not see the rather dangerous potential for a gray legal area to develop?

    No system of depth can be corrected quickly.
    I contend that many people are not mature enough to see this. Beasts without any concept of order or rule of law the supersedes their own primal desires and rage.

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Do you not see the rather dangerous potential for a gray legal area to develop?
    Laws mean nothing if the population lack the will to defend them. The most effective way to chip away at that desire is to allow blatant injustices to occur with regularity under the rule of law.

  8. #28
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Laws mean nothing if the population lack the will to defend them. The most effective way to chip away at that desire is to allow blatant injustices to occur with regularity under the rule of law.
    What you are saying is, "We will break our laws to support the rule of law!" Awfully illogical for an INTJ. It sounds like Bush when he said, "We will abandon free market principles to save capitalism." What is it with you people and the contradictions...

    Check out this letter written by one of the AIG workers to the president of AIG, where he reveals what went on behind the scenes and how they only make $1, and actually get paid through their bonuses (this being because Clinton passed legislation to limit executive pay, so the company went around it and paid in bonuses which are not limited)-

    Glenn Beck - The Glenn Beck Program - Mar 25 2009 - Hour 2 - Free MP3 Stream on IMEEM Music

    The whole media campaign against AIG scandalous. Those protests in front of AIG were organized by the service workers union and ACORN. It wasn't organized by regular people, it was put together by special interest groups. The government is pushing this story with the media to distract people and keep their anger focused on what is least important and furthest away from THEM, the ones who have had a giant hand in much of this mess.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INTx
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Laws mean nothing if the population lack the will to defend them. The most effective way to chip away at that desire is to allow blatant injustices to occur with regularity under the rule of law.
    So you're saying that we should defend our laws.. so you're agreeing with me? I'm confused by your logic at this point.

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    What you are saying is, "We will break our laws to support the rule of law!" Awfully illogical for an INTJ.
    Nope. Break the written law to support the underlying principle of justice. The written law is far from perfect. Let common sense prevail over dogma.

    Boo F'n Hoo.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 163
    Last Post: 08-22-2017, 04:53 PM
  2. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 05-10-2014, 02:03 PM
  3. Why is everyone so happy all the time?
    By xisnotx in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-21-2011, 02:29 PM
  4. [ESFP] From an ESFP: Why is everyone so surprised when I say something intelligent?!
    By KarenParker in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 07-14-2009, 05:23 AM
  5. Why is this so funny?
    By proteanmix in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-25-2007, 11:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO