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  1. #11
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    the collapse has begun..
    Sky continues to fall. News at 11.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Japanese finance minister said Japan's economy hasn't been in this much trouble since WW2.
    Since 1974, I think. It's been this bad before... worse, actually.

    Having said that, some signals are still negative, and I don't see a lot of hope for this year. However, my general impression is that the descent is slowing down. I see plateau though, as there are quite a few fundamentals that need to be worked through - housing, credit, banking. I'm still hoping to pick up a nice piece of property at about 40% off today's prices... in about 5 years. We'll see, given that I'll need a lot more money anyway

    Inflation still isn't the major risk. Wealth is still being destroyed, currently. You'll see inflation only if they dramatically overshoot that... least in the short run. The long run for inflation will be impacted, I'm sure - but that's a percent or two higher over a decade or more, depending on what happens yet.

  2. #12
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    Thank you for beating be to the post Babylon . I have been sounding the alarm about China and how they no longer want to go and buy up our debt. So far they still support us a bit, but that is rapidly coming to an end. We can't find buyers for our 30 year treasuries, so about a month ago we decided that the Fed would start buying them. The money printing will now begin, and the inflationary forces will begin to take hold. Buying our own debt will strike the nail further into the heart of our economy.

  3. #13
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Wealth is still being destroyed, currently.
    Wealth? it was never real to begin with. I cant stand it when obama goes on and on about peoples saving being wiped out: stock and real estate =/= savings. people are feeling overly entitled to their monopoly money, that should never of been created in the first place.

    the cure is savings, and yet the current gov is doing everything possible to discourage savings...which is exactly what got us here.

  4. #14
    Te > Fi > Ni Shaula's Avatar
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    Maybe it's about time for WWIII. We've waited too long as is and it will get our minds off economic problems. KILL KILL KILL!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    the cure is savings, and yet the current gov is doing everything possible to discourage savings...which is exactly what got us here.
    Yeah I have to agree with this one.
    Is not to be held accuntable for peeling errors.

  5. #15
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Wealth? it was never real to begin with. I cant stand it when obama goes on and on about peoples saving being wiped out: stock and real estate =/= savings. people are feeling overly entitled to their monopoly money, that should never of been created in the first place.

    the cure is savings, and yet the current gov is doing everything possible to discourage savings...which is exactly what got us here.
    Savings is bad for the economy.

    Spend, peasant!
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  6. #16
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post
    Maybe it's about time for WWIII. We've waited too long as is and it will get our minds off economic problems. KILL KILL KILL!!!
    Wouldn't mind some war profiteering myself.

    I've been feeling left out since USSR collapsed.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #17
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Wealth? it was never real to begin with. I cant stand it when obama goes on and on about peoples saving being wiped out: stock and real estate =/= savings. people are feeling overly entitled to their monopoly money, that should never of been created in the first place.
    Yes, it is real, and yes, it was destroyed. People that were working are now not. People who were spending, are now not. Less is being produced. Less is being consumed. Less people are working, less companies are hiring/working. And what backs these things? The capital - that includes real estate, even with the bubble - and the stock. The total value of the stock is related to the money that flow through. A destruction of "wealth" - people own the capital that allows workers and consumers to meet means that the transactions aren't happening anymore.

    IOW, recession.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Savings is bad for the economy.
    Yup, pretty much. Of course, it balances out - more savings, less interest, more investment/spending etc. But in and of itself, yes.

  8. #18
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    DOOM AND GLOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM!

    Don't sweat it, Babylon. The Republic of Texas will be fine as usual.
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  9. #19
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Fed in Bond-Buying Binge to Spur Growth - WSJ.com


    the headline for that article should read: US creates a trillion dollars out of thin air.

    1. Our debt has been financed by the savings of other countries for the past 25 years.
    2. Our need for debt financing has finally surpassed world savings.
    3. Now we are just printing money.

    I have a question.

    The Fed either:

    a) has never heard of the weimar republic
    b) is actually TRYING to monetarize our debt.
    c) actually believes they can keep the "make-believe-wealth" party going by encouraging more spending not backed by savings.

    Out of respect for their intelligence, I'm not even going to consider "a".
    If the answer is "b", we'd be wiping out debt at the cost of becoming a 3rd world country.
    If the answer is "c", they are actively discouraging people from saving (via inflation). While debt can be used to create wealth via new production, only savings can fix a balance sheet irrespective of production. In other words, I don't see what option "c" really does that benefits anyone in the long run.
    America is about to sh*t its last sh*t...
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    America is about to sh*t its last sh*t...
    Yea, this is pretty much our last tool in the shitty bag of tricks. If they muck this up, it's OVER.

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