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  1. #41
    Senior Member Azseroffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That's true about brand names, but those brands got their reputation from a reason. And I don't see how your theoretical world could stop this from happening, unless all means of production were socialized (no individuals could create anything "trendy").
    Everything would be socialized. Individuals don't own factors of production. Individuals could however make new designs of clothing for example and show it to people that might want it. People would only do this for the shear enjoyment as they would receive no compensation for it.
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  2. #42
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    You read Das Kapital? Sforarzs? i am really interested in this discussion.

    I think its possible, but we need to identify the limitations now.

    Oberon, i think we are losing self-sufficiency in this world. We alreadyt surrender our survial resources to factors of productions. Capitalists already own and sell water and electricity and charging us money for it.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by untypable View Post
    Capitalists already own and sell water and electricity and charging us money for it.
    Whereas abundant wild electricity was gathered by the pre-Colombian hunter-gatherer societies and used free of... dare I say it... charge.

    Fascinating.

    You do realize, don't you, that in order for energy to come out of your wall socket, energy has to be put in the system somewhere? It's not like air, which is always there when you feel the need to take a breath.

  4. #44
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    They use fire back then. but we arte not allowed to use fires now because it can start a inferno.

    You do realize, don't you, that in order for energy to come out of your wall socket, energy has to be put in the system somewhere? It's not like air, which is always there when you feel the need to take a breath.
    This is worth contemplating. However, life is a system without energy input but produce an energy output. The beginning of life is prove that what you say has fallacies.

    Newvertheless my understanding of your point is there muusr be an input of energy is called work to produce more energy. so human beings must work in order to survive and prosper.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    You can get all the water you want for free from the ocean. But you'll have to pay transportation costs to have it transported to your residence. Also, if you want potable water (good luck drinking ocean water or untreated lake/river water), you're going to have to pay extra for that.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #46
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    It is funny we are assigning the economic functions to numbers that are constantly changing. I fail to see the meaning behind all this. What does these numbers represented by money mean anyway? without these numbers, would the economy collapse and go down the drain?

    When these numbers cease to exist , the resource base economy would be possible.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Azseroffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    You read Das Kapital? Sforarzs? i am really interested in this discussion.

    I think its possible, but we need to identify the limitations now.
    No I haven't, but I've been interested in Marx.
    I'm not sure that I know what you mean by identifying the limitations.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    When these numbers cease to exist , the resource base economy would be possible.
    But they can't cease to exist. To get water takes effort - to make food takes effort. You can numerate that effort however you want, but it exists.

    The modern economy simply gives a group the competitive advantage in one area - like say, water - making it infeasible for you to get it yourself (not if you wish to maintain your QOL relative to peers, anyway). They do this by reducing the effort you need to exert, and in aggregate, the overall effort required to ship water. This is a net benefit for everyone involved.

    Even if they decided not to give the water out, for some reason, the only thing you have lost is the benefit from what would exist naturally. (All this assumes it is easy to get, of course. There are cases where the market is not so free!)


    The only way for the 'numbers' to cease is to make everything effortless.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Azseroffs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The only way for the 'numbers' to cease is to make everything effortless.
    In comes technology
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  10. #50
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    It still wouldn't be effortless. When things are free and abundant, people become wasteful. You'll never be able to produce enough free stuff. If clean water is free, people will waste it. If food is free, people will waste it. And so on.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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