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  1. #61
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    I'm still not convinced how any of the idea's you presented would be applyble without a change of culture and a political revolution, Qre:us.
    Since powerful "governments" or rather gangs or cartels have all the guns, the popular consensus can't evolve and has to succumb to the status quo. What i'm "arguing" is that those cartels hamper efforts to distribute ... say ... conraceptives. The un and media legitamize those gangs if by only refering to their leaders as "president". But contraceptives, while being nobile, are tangible. The education of ... say...abstainance is intangible. So what Qs conscience doesn't understand is that while satisfying guilt by posting this in a very articulate way the inevitable cute thinking bs theorys pop out. And givin Qs type, he she or it will automatically knee jerk about certain truths of the forest. One of those certain truths are other folks theory posts that can only further Qs cause if not by begetting theorys then by keeping the post alive by generating what some may read as hostility in others opinions. While all these posts were writen potentially 10,000 more friends died in Africa. Did you hear about it in the media? No. So Qs post brought about an awareness and we so excellerated it. In "cute thinking" theory and opinion. If Q thinks i'm gonna cease and assist by detatching in what he she or it figures as clever articulate rebuttles to my posts, Q will become aware that that is now impossible because the "theory" of mbti made me "aware" of detachment.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  2. #62
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Since powerful "governments" or rather gangs or cartels have all the guns, the popular consensus can't evolve and has to succumb to the status quo. What i'm "arguing" is that those cartels hamper efforts to distribute ... say ... conraceptives. The un and media legitamize those gangs if by only refering to their leaders as "president". But contraceptives, while being nobile, are tangible. The education of ... say...abstainance is intangible. So what Qs conscience doesn't understand is that while satisfying guilt by posting this in a very articulate way the inevitable cute thinking bs theorys pop out. And givin Qs type, he she or it will automatically knee jerk about certain truths of the forest. One of those certain truths are other folks theory posts that can only further Qs cause if not by begetting theorys then by keeping the post alive by generating what some may read as hostility in others opinions. While all these posts were writen potentially 10,000 more friends died in Africa. Did you hear about it in the media? No. So Qs post brought about an awareness and we so excellerated it. In "cute thinking" theory and opinion. If Q thinks i'm gonna cease and assist by detatching in what he she or it figures as clever articulate rebuttles to my posts, Q will become aware that that is now impossible because the "theory" of mbti made me "aware" of detachment.
    #clap# #clap# brilliant anaylsis. Although i have to point out that these "gangs" and "cartels" are normally elected, either with farce elections or uncorrupted ones. One of the unfortunate facts about poverty once mixed with loss of idealism and power they lead to corruption, it's within there the major problems of sub saharan africa lies, corruption is the major villian. Responsible for as you say , the status quo.

    Another thing i might want to raise is that, meanwhilst the discipline of sexual abistinence is a very ideal solution, it is far from realistic, and SSA africa is certainly not ready for that, unless sweept by some major scale altering factor.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  3. #63
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Swept by some major scale altering factor as...say.. the "salutory" option. Show me the paperwork, i'll sign it.
    Before the un outlawed it, one thing that was working in the western central region was assasination of gangs from "private" organization of mercinarys.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  4. #64
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Swept by some major scale altering factor as...say.. the "salutory" option. Show me the paperwork, i'll sign it.
    Before the un outlawed it, one thing that was working in the western central region was assasination of gangs from "private" organization of mercinarys.
    The media only presented the cons of these organizations. One con acceptable to logic is that those organizations could also be labeled as a "gang". But Christian relief groups are by no means a gang. If i need to define "gang" it would include the idea of carryin a fire arm.
    Last edited by professor goodstain; 03-13-2009 at 11:09 AM. Reason: spelling
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  5. #65
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    I'm still not convinced how any of the idea's you presented would be applyble without a change of culture and a political revolution, Qre:us.
    I've even acknowledged that in my last post - but, these apply in terms of long-range sustainable 'solutions'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post

    Although, the 'winning' isn't always quite effective because of inherent socio-political, economic and cultural barriers. It still produces some results.
    HOwever, I have some things to get clarification on:
    What do you deem worthy of change? Does affecting one community of 25? Even a handful? Or one individual, even? Is it not worthy of change?

    Are you assuming that those who help are doing it for themselves? That if their hard work gets pile drived after they've done it, then they should give up? That's weak. That's not the reasons those who go there to create change go. They wish, hope, that their innovations, efforts continue to apply long term. But, it's not an expectation that they require. And, so when a rebel group came and destroyed the tiny little clinic my prof and a couple of others started, laughing and setting fire to it, i.e., overthrow all the hard work in the community.

    My professor got mad for all of 10 minutes. And she was right back at it, building again on top of the rubble.


    Because, as I said in that post - it's not about numbers. It's about individuals. If a life can be made comfortable, even for an interval of time, if we can help - why not? Why expect that our help should be treated with *some sort* of gratitude and reverence? That it should be 'effective long-run'? That's quite selfish to expect that, from a context where stability of ANY kind is lacking....so why would you expect a stability to occur before you deliver help?

    So, with your line of thinking, you will say to them, "Wait, wait, wait, I know you people have issues, and we have ways to tackle some of these issues, but, we won't help you, until you get stable, because then our help will have sustainable effects, cuz otherwise, it's just a waste of time."

    That's quite the paradox, as it's a circle of disadvantage. Cuz: If they were stable, I highly doubt they would need the help in the first place.


  6. #66
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Are you assuming that those who help are doing it for themselves? That if their hard work gets pile drived after they've done it, then they should give up? That's weak. That's not the reasons those who go there to create change go. They wish, hope, that their innovations, efforts continue to apply long term. But, it's not an expectation that they require. And, so when a rebel group came and destroyed the tiny little clinic my prof and a couple of others started, laughing and setting fire to it, i.e., overthrow all the hard work in the community.

    My professor got mad for all of 10 minutes. And she was right back at it, building again on top of the rubble.


    Because, as I said in that post - it's not about numbers. It's about individuals. If a life can be made comfortable, even for an interval of time, if we can help - why not? Why expect that our help should be treated with *some sort* of gratitude and reverence? That it should be 'effective long-run'? That's quite selfish to expect that, from a context where stability of ANY kind is lacking....so why would you expect a stability to occur before you deliver help?

    So, with your line of thinking, you will say to them, "Wait, wait, wait, I know you people have issues, and we have ways to tackles some of these issues, but, we won't help you, until you get stable, because then our help will have sustainable effects, cuz otherwise, it's just a waste of time."

    That's quite the paradox, as it's a circle of disadvantage. Cuz: If they were stable, I highly doubt they would need the help in the first place.

    I think what intro-e is gettin at runs along the lines of Maslows pyramid. If the influence of the un didn't outlaw any form of "private organization" intervention or a salutory intervention then 10 mins later the prof would be building a clinic but there would exist 2 clinics. Assuming folks aren't assisting the individual by their presents by what intro-e posted is still not seein the forest. Yet if you hold true to your convictions and get over there to help, all these assuptions will dissapate while bullets are flyin at ya.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, it has happened historically. Consider this paragraph from the Wikipedia entry for Rose Wilder Lane:

    Around 1940, despite continuing requests from editors for both fiction and non-fiction material, Lane turned away from commercial writing and became known as one of the more influential American libertarians of the middle 20th century. She vehemently opposed the New Deal, creeping socialism, Social Security, wartime rationing and all forms of taxation, claiming she ceased writing highly paid commercial fiction in order to protest paying income taxes. She cut her income and expenses to the bare minimum, and lived a modern-day version of her ancestors' pioneer life on her rural land near Danbury, Connecticut.

    Given that at least one case of "going Galt" has been documented, it is by no means unreasonable to believe that another such case exists today, or likely several.
    Your example is of a writer. That's a far cry from a business owner reducing production (and laying off workers) to achieve the same goals, and that's what this is about. A writer "going Galt" has virtually no effect on the economy. There are protesters for every issue.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #68
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    If the influence of the un didn't outlaw any form of "private organization" intervention or a salutory intervention then 10 mins later the prof would be building a clinic but there would exist 2 clinics.
    Prove it. Prove that UN has stopped intervention by private organizations. Not one or two random instances, but, as you keep spouting with your 'conspiracy theory' - that it is apparently THE MAIN issue....show me the large-scale systematic hindrance to private organizations from helping in Sub-Saharan Africa, by the influence of UN.

    As I said, don't spout hot air. SHOW ME!

    Assuming folks aren't assisting the individual by their presents by what intro-e posted is still not seein the forest.
    ?????

    I only understand English...so, please rephrase the above to make it legible.

    You think you see the trees from the forest. I think you see a whole different version of reality altogether.

    Yet if you hold true to your convictions and get over there to help, all these assuptions will dissapate while bullets are flyin at ya.

    And, yet, there are people that go there and still are willing to take this very chance.
    Btw, most foreigners are contained only to certain areas, esp. in areas of conflict, you are not allowed to stay there (even if you wanted to Mother Teresa it up and help).

    Even giving aid in refugee camps means that you only work there when there is still sun. Then you get moved OUT of the refugee camp area, into another area that is protected by military for your safety, and sleep much more soundly through the night, while those you helped during the day are left at the refugee camp, and nothing good happens when darkness sets. And, you go back and see the ramifications of it the next day, in the sunlight. And, keep again with the help. And, leave when sun sets. And rinse and repeat.

    So, I don't know what Indiana Jones story you've heard, but there are a lot of limits to the help foreigners can give, even if they want to take further risks, they are stopped (note this is applicable only to areas of conflict regions).

  9. #69
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Your example is of a writer. That's a far cry from a business owner reducing production (and laying off workers) to achieve the same goals, and that's what this is about. A writer "going Galt" has virtually no effect on the economy. There are protesters for every issue.
    If folks read it or not, they'll still understand the repercussions of socialism. History doesn't have to be read for folks to figure it out over and over again. That writer going galt doesn't have to be read or exist for the words writen to be proven true yet again.
    You need to define "effect".
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #70
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Prove it.

    So, I don't know what Indiana Jones story you've heard, but there are a lot of limits to the help foreigners can give, even if they want to take further risks, they are stopped (note this is applicable only to areas of conflict regions).
    Private organization as in "mercinary" aid Q. Not private organization as a whole. In the context of intro-es post. Maslows pyramid? Now i'm startin to assume they are there to satisfy midlife crisis. When in reality you are satisfying midlife crisis and are absalutely no help to them by you're still here taking intro-es posts out of context. You got a damn good thread going. It's got me considering assisting when my own midlife crisis surfaces. Untill then the forest Q the forest.
    The un has a tremendous influence on all this, problem is their illogical law hindering proven possative occurances by their socialistic point of view. Indiana Jones was lookin for a 1000 year old watch or something. Whats he got to do with providing aid to individuals beside himself?
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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