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  1. #11
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    What africa needs are catalystic leaders, idealism, a change of mentality, education, and support in building up independently working nations.

    The problems with africa are not entirely geographical in nature.If you look at the history of sub saharan africa, you'll find that the massive drastic changes brought their by occidental imperialism, which the native africans were by no means prepared for, did more harm then good. Imagine going from priorly traditionally nomadic/tribalistic cultures with not much complexity nor a sense of unity, into a modern sedentery one over a span of 100years, which took other civilizations, centuries and centuries to develop and adapt to.

    Imagine modern ideas of unity, national states, borders brought to people who have not socially, culturally advanced to a stage where such idea's can be incoporated and adapted to, let alone forced on, and then imagine tribalism and other things incomptable with the mindset essential to practice these ideas, and then you'll have sub saharan africa.

    An assortment of volitile,corrupt, dysfunctional states, with stagnant vigour, not to speak of the blatant tribalism in some african nations that hinders progress towards national unity.

    Africa needs good leaders, good education, a revolution to solve it's problems. All monetary and external aid, will most likely go to waste, not being properly invested into things important to progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    you essentially have to change their institutions before they even have a chance at moving away from poverty. that takes a different approach than what the bleeding hearts so far are capable of or willing to do (i.e. military, force).
    I disagree with salutary intervention. It will only serve to agitate the situation further, especially in the parts where tribal relations are uneasy. Just like in the iraq there will faction violence, Only in this case it will be inter-ethnical violence.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  2. #12
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Mother Africa? Is she the one on TV who says to call her so she can predict my future?
    No, She's the place where civilization began...
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  3. #13
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    No, She's the place where civilization began...
    Incorrect my fellow SP. the concept of civilization did not exist because sedenterism had not been discovered yet. What did happen on the grounds of africa though is the humans evolutionary convergence from other hominids.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  4. #14
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    Incorrect my fellow SP. the concept of civilization did not exist because sedenterism had not been discovered yet. What did happen on the grounds of africa though is the humans evolutionary convergence from other hominids.
    Ethiopia and Egypt. Case closed.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  5. #15
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Ethiopia and Egypt. Case closed.
    I wouldin't be so quick.

    Natufian culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  6. #16
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    What does that have to do with A) Ethiopia & Egypt in fact disproving your claim of no civilization in Africa

    B) Greeks being educated in Egypt, who in turn became the foundation of Western civilization as we know it?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  7. #17
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    What does that have to do with A) Ethiopia & Egypt in fact disproving your claim of no civilization in Africa?
    Uhm, i never said there was no civlizations in africa. However what i did say was that that there was prior civilization's to the african ones as opposed you claiming that the first occuring civilizations to be african.
    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    B) Greeks being educated in Egypt, who in turn became the foundation of Western civilization as we know it?
    That is highly debateble. While the greeks did have some limited contact with egyptians pre b.c 2000 it is unclear if that was a determining factor in greek civilization, people are still speculating about the factors that started the cultural revolution which spawned the classical age in greece, alot of it is too shrouded in the mist and too obscure to be able to make a valid conclusion.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  8. #18
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    Incorrect my fellow SP. the concept of civilization did not exist because sedenterism had not been discovered yet. What did happen on the grounds of africa though is the humans evolutionary convergence from other hominids.
    A) In your own words

    B)Natufian culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia BTW This doesn't qualify as a civilization in that sense of the word.

    C) It's not at all debatable. Lets just say you don't know.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  9. #19
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    A) In your own words.
    I said it was not possible that egypt had the first civilization since sedenterism was invented elsewhere, and spread to places approxomitely closer to the birth place of sedenterism, which is mesopotamia, where the first civilization was erected.



    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post

    B)Natufian culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    BTW This doesn't qualify as a civilization in that sense of the word.
    No but it was the first signs of sedenterism, which implies cultural expansion, since migrations were frequent.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;573366
    The domestication of plants and animals usually distinguishes Neolithic culture from earlier Paleolithic or Mesolithic hunting, fishing, and food-gathering cultures. The Mesolithic period in several areas shows a gradual transition from a food-collecting to a food-producing culture. The termination of the Neolithic period is marked by such innovations as the rise of urban civilization or the introduction of metal tools or writing. Again, the criteria vary with each case. The earliest known development of Neolithic culture was in SW Asia between 8000 B.C. and 6000 B.C. There the domestication of plants and animals was probably begun by the Mesolithic Natufian peoples, leading to the establishment of settled villages based on the cultivation of cereals, including wheat, barley, and millet, and the raising of cattle, sheep, goats, and pigs. In the Tigris and Euphrates river valleys, the Neolithic culture of the Middle East developed into the urban civilizations of the Bronze Age by 3500 B.C. Between 6000 B.C. and 2000 B.C. Neolithic culture spread through Europe, the Nile valley (Egypt), the Indus valley (India), and the Huang He valley (N China). The formation of Neolithic cultures throughout the Old World resulted from a combination of local cultural developments with innovations diffused from the Middle East. In SE Asia, a distinct type of Neolithic culture involving rice cultivation developed, perhaps independently, before 2000 B.C. In the New World, the domestication of plants and animals occurred independently of Old World developments. By 1500 B.C.
    and besides the mesopotamian culture and civilization has proven to be older, thus have been coined the "Cradle of civilization".


    http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0835205.html

    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    C) It's not at all debatable. Lets just say you don't know.
    That sounds like typical centricism, no basis. I can assume a theory just as easily, however it's not as simple nor feasible. There are hundreds of possible scenerios, none could be assumed fact, unless they archaelogists a build time machine and monitor the event, or find salient concrete evidence through excavation. Until then, everything remains speculation, speculations that are dead ends.

    I should also ask you to give your sources.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  10. #20
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    I said it was not possible that egypt had the first civilizations since sedenterism was invented elsewhere.
    I quoted your own words, if you meant to say something different say you meant to say something different don't say you said X when you clearly said Y.



    No but it was the first signs of sedenterism, which implies cultural expansion, since migrations were frequent.



    and besides the mesopotamian culture and civilization has proven to be older, thus have been coined the "Cradle of civilization".


    http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0835205.html


    That sounds like typical centricism, no basis. I can assume a theory just as easily, however it's not as simple nor feasible. There are hundreds of possible scenerios, none could be assumed fact, unless they archaelogists a build time machine and monitor the event, or find salient evidence through excavation. Until then, everything remains speculation, speculations that are dead ends.

    I should also ask you to give your sources.
    Egypt: origin of the Greek culture

    Howstuffworks "Did the ancient Greeks get their ideas from the Africans?"

    Stolen Legacy: Part I: Chapter IV: The Egyptians Educated the Greeks
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

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