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  1. #131
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I am watching that thread for some time and I will join.

    Here is a part of one of my old posts.


    It is normal that you support aid to sub-Saharan countries but I canít understand the mechanism how that can be right thing to do.


    You are providing some aid, but there is more and more people living there every day. Since birth rate is out of control and you can't raise them over the poverty line since that would require huge amount of materials and energy. That would be like you are trying to build an entire infrastructure of US or EU is a few years. Building such an infrastructure would be the biggest job in history. Not to mention that the biosphere can't even support civilization as it is.
    So in the end this means that you will just feed them and aid them until you will not be able to do so any more since there is too many of them. Also the aid I am talking about must not be food in can be cloths and equipment.


    On the other hand there are people that have problems with cruelly toward animals and what is interesting is that in many cases those are the same people that support aid to sub-Saharan Africa.


    Since you are aiding there is more and more people who need more food then you are aiding since population is in expansion.
    Tech-level, transportation system and climate provide environment that is not good to organize huge farming system.
    So the only thing those people can do is to turn to their own ecosystems for food.
    Because of this we are loosing huge number of species all the time since those people are consuming the entire system by consuming animals, destroying ecological balance what destroys organisms that survive human activity. Also they are chopping the forests for fire wood, house construction and to expand local crop production.
    What will happen when they spend their finite supplies? Guess.


    By doing things like this they are permanently destroying the system that is piece of the puzzle of a greater system. Which keeps world as it is.


    This region of the world has population of about 750 million.
    What means that you need huge amount of vegetables and proteins to support so much people even in so poor state such as this.
    In the last 50 years the population has tripled and is growing faster and faster since there are more potential mothers. What means that you must send a lot of aid or they will turn to their environment and destroy it. (Or both)
    Someone could say ďfu** environmentĒ but that does not change anything since the process is still going in the direction of catastrophe.



    Odds that you will stop the increase of population is even lower because even if everyone will have only one child, that is still 50% increase. Since parents are still alive and older generations are smaller in number.
    Right now three children per mother are minimums there,
    (This is simplified example)



    This was just to show that empathy/helpfulness and everything that comes with it can cause some serious problems for the civilization and that they are not a good choice in some situations.
    This has nothing to do with hate or lack of tolerance it has to do with the fact that people don't think straight. Since this way you are only creating more people to die in the end.
    What is quite cruel even if entire thing look like as good idea.

  2. #132
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Your example is of a writer. That's a far cry from a business owner reducing production (and laying off workers) to achieve the same goals, and that's what this is about. A writer "going Galt" has virtually no effect on the economy. There are protesters for every issue.
    A re-framing of the question to raise the bar, and so disqualify my example.

    [sigh]

    I had hoped for better of you, Lat.

  3. #133
    Oberon
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    Africa is a beautiful place and a horrifying place. Fall in love with Africa, and it'll break your heart.

    Here's what I consider a brutal truth about aid to Africa:

    So that is the only one response, and itís a brutal one: accept that we are powerless to change Africa, and leave them to sink or swim, by themselves.

    It sounds dreadful to say it, but if the entire African continent dissolves into a seething maelstrom of disease, famine and brutality, thatís just too damn bad. We have better things to do--sometimes, you just have to say, "Canít do anything about it."

    The viciousness, the cruelty, the corruption, the duplicity, the savagery, and the incompetence is endemic to the entire continent, and is so much of an anathema to any right-thinking person that the civilized imagination simply stalls when faced with its ubiquity, and with the enormity of trying to fix it. The Western media shouldnít even bother reporting on it. All that does is arouse our feelings of horror, and the instinctive need to do something, anything--but everything has been tried before, and failed. Everything, of course, except self-reliance.


    Africa Wins Again.

  4. #134
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Africa is a beautiful place and a horrifying place. Fall in love with Africa, and it'll break your heart.

    Here's what I consider a brutal truth about aid to Africa:

    So that is the only one response, and itís a brutal one: accept that we are powerless to change Africa, and leave them to sink or swim, by themselves.

    It sounds dreadful to say it, but if the entire African continent dissolves into a seething maelstrom of disease, famine and brutality, thatís just too damn bad. We have better things to do--sometimes, you just have to say, "Canít do anything about it."

    The viciousness, the cruelty, the corruption, the duplicity, the savagery, and the incompetence is endemic to the entire continent, and is so much of an anathema to any right-thinking person that the civilized imagination simply stalls when faced with its ubiquity, and with the enormity of trying to fix it. The Western media shouldnít even bother reporting on it. All that does is arouse our feelings of horror, and the instinctive need to do something, anything--but everything has been tried before, and failed. Everything, of course, except self-reliance.


    Africa Wins Again.
    Kinda like a model of experiment. Just incase we or europe end up in that same situation. Only thing the un got right was to keep cronological log of it all. Notice after the uns failures became so obvious in their own log they stoped keepin log. In other words rewrote history via excluding information such as natural resources imenently available.
    If only but one source of Qs is possative, it's that charity that sends chickens, some cattle, seeds and other stuff which is reusable by nature alone. But animosity towards the un sure can help by influence. They quasi-protect all the politics that are the problem not the solution.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  5. #135
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    sure... let africa sort itself out. i'm sure they'll figure their shit out in a few centuries.
    What a suprise, esp. after the utilitarianism thing.

    You, sir, are a lot more ideal than I am. You give humanity a hella lot more faith that they won't let their pride, 'guns', power, whatever, prove a point at a global scale before a few centuries are even up. Leaving us ALL as none.

    :banned: (sorry, closest smiley I can get to a nuke warfare)

  6. #136
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Qre:us, I would reccommend that you read this Working Paper by William Easterly:

    http://www.nyu.edu/fas/institute/dri...20Easterly.pdf

    Thanks, just got up to pg2, looks like a good argument he brings forth, I will def. check it out.

    Muchos gracias!

  7. #137
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    What a suprise, esp. after the utilitarianism thing.

    You, sir, are a lot more ideal than I am. You give humanity a hella lot more faith that they won't let their pride, 'guns', power, whatever, prove a point at a global scale before a few centuries are even up. Leaving us ALL as none.

    :banned: (sorry, closest smiley I can get to a nuke warfare)
    What he/she is gettin at is they won't figure their shit out because they can't. They have desease and they're starving they got other things to worry about. Fun house mirror creepin in Q? Once again Maslows pyramid. Air, food, water, shelter and a shirt on the back are much more enjoyable with a medical aide factory right there in country. Hell, include a pharmaceutical factory so one can surely enjoy the confidence of knowing medical aid is so near by that they don't have to be reliant on external sources that have shitty reliability. And an infrastructure to assist. But it all really is a fallacy. Q? Q? Does it really hurt to bring it up? It's political crap that hurts to bring up, with the exceptions of their fallacies. Sorry our lectures go counter iN to what midlife-crisis havin professor asses have brainwashed ya into believing.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  8. #138
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Kinda like a model of experiment. Just incase we or europe end up in that same situation. Only thing the un got right was to keep cronological log of it all. Notice after the uns failures became so obvious in their own log they stoped keepin log. In other words rewrote history via excluding information such as natural resources imenently available.
    If only but one source of Qs is possative, it's that charity that sends chickens, some cattle, seeds and other stuff which is reusable by nature alone. But animosity towards the un sure can help by influence. They quasi-protect all the politics that are the problem not the solution.

    Dude, if the UN decided to fuck you, then failed to call you the next morning, I got one advice: get over it!

    There are more fish in the sea, ol'chap!

  9. #139
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    What he/she is gettin at is they won't figure their shit out because they can't. They have desease and they're starving they got other things to worry about. Fun house mirror creepin in Q? Once again Maslows pyramid. Air, food, water, shelter and a shirt on the back are much more enjoyable with a medical aide factory right there in country. Hell, include a pharmaceutical factory so one can surely enjoy the confidence of knowing medical aid is so near by that they don't have to be reliant on external sources that have shitty reliability. And an infrastructure to assist. But it all really is a fallacy. Q? Q? Does it really hurt to bring it up? It's political crap that hurts to bring up, with the exceptions of their fallacies. Sorry our lectures go counter iN to what midlife-crisis havin professor asses have brainwashed ya into believing.
    it's like watching "A beautiful mind" without the beauty part (or...a mind).

    Edit: I was talking about your stream of consciousness/thought presentation.

  10. #140
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    it's like watching "A beautiful mind" without the beauty part.
    That beauty you invision exists in specific settings in america. Those same invisions do not exist in the mind of an SSA child. They don't pet the pretty little kitty. Who pets what will be lunch in about 15 mins.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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