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  1. #111
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    You just wrote a post ago that every nook has been exploited. This reads as if it is intact and any baggage from history completely missed this geographical spot.
    My point is what motivation do you give these people who have been forced to be exposed to the global market? I.e., their nook has been exposed by globalization, but, that's all they've been used to for this long, how to sustain within their tried & true nook. You just take the carpet out from under their feet, and then....what?

    We force you, then we say, these are the rules....so, start playing.

    Where is the motivation for them at THEIR end, except at the level of 'be forced or drown'?

    * no human-driven change can happen unless we factor in motivation.

  2. #112
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    So, I'll repeat, what do you say to them, as talking of a wage is irrelevant to such groups?
    His buy-in is not required. That's the whole point of incentives. He'll participate because that's what is best for him. Anything else is doomed for failure.

    We need his buy-in as much as you need to convince him to eat food that is given in aid... a truly hungry person simply doesn't do that.

  3. #113
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    So, I'll repeat, what do you say to them, as talking of a wage is irrelevant to such groups?
    I don't agree with this. Subsistence farming is generally a practice one is forced into (through climate, land ownership issues, etc. etc. etc.). The second climate change amd social change allowed Europeans to move from subsistence farming to for-profit farming, they did so. How do you know talking about a wage would be "irrelevent" to certain groups? I'd think that the very last thing that would be irrelvent to most people would be the opportunity to improve their lot and the lot of their children, which is what the move from subsistence to for-profit farming would do.

    Are you really contending that certain people/groups of people, if given the choice, would *choose* subsistence farming over for-profit farming? Isn't it simple human nature to want and strive for the very best possible outcome for oneself and one's family?
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  4. #114
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    I don't agree with this. Subsistence farming is generally a practice one is forced into (through climate, land ownership issues, etc. etc. etc.). The second climate change amd social change allowed Europeans to move from subsistence farming to for-profit farming, they did so. How do you know talking about a wage would be "irrelevent" to certain groups? I'd think that the very last thing that would be irrelvent to most people would be the opportunity to improve their lot and the lot of their children, which is what the move from subsistence to for-profit farming would do.

    Are you really contending that certain people/groups of people, if given the choice, would *choose* subsistence farming over for-profit farming?
    I actually agree that subsistence farming for many in Africa's current state is one brought on by their state of poverty and other envt factors like drought, but, that was the first example to come to my head - in general, I'm talking of the many examples of self-sufficiency survival, and people who were ignorantly happy to keep living that way (e.g., isolated indigenous tribes), for themselves, by themselves....until they got introduced to the extra variable called: the outside world.

    What do you say to these people?
    Isn't it simple human nature to want and strive for the very best possible outcome for oneself and one's family?
    This is what I'm asking, who determines what is the 'best possible outcome' when globalization occurs? Is it not through inherent hegemonic pressures?(say, of the developed nations to pull those 'lagging' behind by the metric system/measurement scale of success they've developed, used, utilized, and now propagated and promoted?)

  5. #115
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    My point is what motivation do you give these people who have been forced to be exposed to the global market? I.e., their nook has been exposed by globalization, but, that's all they've been used to for this long, how to sustain within their tried & true nook. You just take the carpet out from under their feet, and then....what?

    We force you, then we say, these are the rules....so, start playing.

    Where is the motivation for them at THEIR end, except at the level of 'be forced or drown'?

    * no human-driven change can happen unless we factor in motivation.
    Hope. In the form of a wage.
    What "motivation" do you give them?
    You point out alot of facts but yet alot of philosophy just like the rest of us.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  6. #116
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Hope. In the form of a wage.
    What "motivation" do you give them?
    You point out alot of facts but yet alot of philosophy just like the rest of us.
    And, I also warn that to look at this issue at this level of economics is gonna be entering the realm of 'philosophy'...did you miss those parts of my earlier posts? Silly stain. Again.

    What motivation I give them - I can't think of any, except to find solutions/ideas to promote a way for them to totally not let go of their way of living, and work WITHIN their age-old frameworks, in a paradoxically increasingly global world...hence, why I draw a blank, and ask others.

    And, why I think it enters the realm of the theoretical more than anything.

  7. #117
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    His buy-in is not required. That's the whole point of incentives. He'll participate because that's what is best for him. Anything else is doomed for failure.

    We need his buy-in as much as you need to convince him to eat food that is given in aid... a truly hungry person simply doesn't do that.
    But...incentive is another word for motivation. I'm asking how do you find the motivation for certain sub-sets of people, given the context they are rising out from? And, their history/way of living?

  8. #118
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I actually agree that subsistence farming for many in Africa's current state is one brought on by their state of poverty and other envt factors like drought, but, that was the first example to come to my head - in general, I'm talking of the many examples of self-sufficiency survival, and people who were ignorantly happy to keep living that way (e.g., isolated indigenous tribes), for themselves, by themselves....until they got introduced to the extra variable called: the outside world.

    What do you say to these people?

    You say-hey people we're gonna stop squandering all this gov't monitery aid on politics and start payin a wage.
    But that's not in the un rule book.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  9. #119
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    And, I also warn that to look at this issue at this level of economics is gonna be entering the realm of 'philosophy'...did you miss those parts of my earlier posts? Silly stain. Again.

    What motivation I give them - I can't think of any, except to find solutions/ideas to promote a way for them to totally not let go of their way of living, and work WITHIN their age-old frameworks, in a paradoxically increasingly global world...hence, why I draw a blank, and ask others.

    And, why I think it enters the realm of the theoretical more than anything.
    The rest of us did. So what are your solutions/ideas to promote their way? Didn't see any
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #120
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    And, I also warn that to look at this issue at this level of economics is gonna be entering the realm of 'philosophy'...did you miss those parts of my earlier posts? Silly stain. Again.



    And, why I think it enters the realm of the theoretical more than anything.
    You also "warn". (you) also warn...............
    Is that to be placed in history as fact? Or is that your philosophy?
    We all know in the back of our minds what it's gonna take to allow those friends to maintain their old ways while developing bridges to a modern world. Hint....ww2, Japan, Germany. Minus fatman and littleboy.
    Socialism is the ideology of death. Who are the local farmers oppressors? Socialist small mobs with guns. They take from the producer because they have guns. From those with the ability-to those without. Now evolve that over time. Then add the un-educated factor. Then add guns. Not rocket science Q.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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