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  1. #91
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    The failures of Western Aid to Africa must cease; it's a form of rebranded colonialism or rather neocolonialism.

    Ethopia's population has increased from 33.5 Million twenty-five years ago to 78 million presently. Feeding a nation catastrophically outstripping their own resources and ecological degradation defies logic.

    If the West actually considers assisting Africa, first, the west must recognize that government corruption and mass poverty is not our problem and second, the west needs to help Africa reduce its overpopulation.
    At the very least could that not piss off 20% of our own population at some point and create yet another animosity?
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  2. #92
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    I have a feeling where you plan on going with this, Plato.

    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Imagine if America was Africa and visa versa, when you are 30, will you still have that one child?
    Absolutely not. I wouldn't want to have a child in that environment. The environment struggles with my very life itself and further reproduction would render it more useless.


    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    If America completely ignored Africa would that mindset carry over to starting to ignore America itself?
    Well, yes. I guess that would ultimately lead me to reject another continent even existing.

    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    China almost completely ignores Africa with the exception of supplying arms to whoever over there, and they have a one child philosophy
    Oh?
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

  3. #93
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    I have a feeling where you plan on going with this, Plato.



    Absolutely not. I wouldn't want to have a child in that environment. The environment struggles with my very life itself and further reproduction would render it more useless.




    Well, yes. I guess that would ultimately lead me to reject another continent even existing.



    Oh?
    Not plato. Nigradomus. Could i intrest you in a christian religion of your choosing? Nilism will make your teeth rot out. i'm living proof.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  4. #94
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Not plato. Nigradomus. Could i intrest you in a christian religion of your choosing? Nilism will make your teeth rot out. i'm living proof.
    As Bartleby said, "I'd prefer not to."
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

  5. #95
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Which is an issue, I agree. There is no perfect solution - put another way, giving aid to the weakest first does the least to help the group pull above minimal sustenance. And as awful as it sounds, it means another mouth to feed. When things are so bad that there isn't enough food to go around... welll... There is always a trade off, I fear, and no good solution. Nature is brutal - and so I approach it from the point of view to let people conquer nature first.
    In my original post, I pointed at this very issue. As a "well, dear readers, this is the caveat of natural selection and evolution with time" But.....we must still engage somehow in this global crisis, even if in thought. Awareness. Some - thing!!

    Qre:usWe can also hem and haw about natural selection doing what it does best, taking out the weak, we can propose arguments such as 'well, there is overpopulation', but, if we have the ability to think so critically, so abstractly about what is wrong with the world and why, can we not then direct this ability towards a solution? Towards active change? With all of our potential for such thought, for such inquiry, our curiousity, we must then also have the power to hope. Why not direct our innovations, our ideas, our abilities towards those that are calling out for it the most? .

    ************

    We can cognitively understand what it must be like to live a life like that. At least I do, knowing the value of independence that I do (in quite a whole lot more spheres in my life) because I got lucky enough to be born into the developed nation (well immigrated here with relative ease/success - my parents). Thus, I greatly value autonomy. I think autonomy is a human right not a priviledge, although it is a paradoxical issue on many levels.

    Regardless, understanding my own desire for individual autonomy (and that includes a right to livable health) it makes me appreciate, and as such, sympathise with those that are prevented from having the same in those nations.

    As to the rest of your points, I point you to another little part in my original post. I'd like your opinion on this "philosophical" economic soap-box 'theory':

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I think the only way poverty will be history is if we could make money off of making poverty history.

    **Aside: (isn't grand scale economics at a global level as easy at Grade 2 math? - oh, added with the recent global financial crisis)


    ********

    In the end, chance, lot in life. (some call it God's will :rolli Whatever. Some of us bastards got 'luckier' than others. And, we know it. We can conceptualize it, understand it at a certain level. We have the luxury of the mind and critical thought to afford to do so. We thus, can then understand what it truly means to be 'priviledged' - even if due to the roll of the dice. Hence, we can have a very indirect minute degree of understanding to what those people may be lacking. Same coin, flip side.

    And, even that little window into their life, from what we, the global community know of them, it's utter devastation in some areas (e.g., Congo).

    But, it's talking in circles, and whining, and sometimes overwhelming to deal with these issues with any level of significant efficiency that will take effect in whatever we determine our 'near future' to be. When are we setting the goals of such economic incentives to measure success, efficiency? This must also then need to be considered.

    It's overwhelming to put it mildly, almost like it seems that no amount of human ingenuity, innovation, mind power (essentially) can solve this global crisis. Yes, I do think if Africa perishes, this world will be that unbalanced to even further deepen our global financial stability. And, at a long-range idealization - global stability as a whole. From the humans to the bee. Earth.

    But, again, how? How do we do it? What is/are the foolproof practical solution(s)?

    How many walls will you break down to only find more go up? When is enough enough?

    I say, either we all survive (for a bit 'longer') trying to lift each other, or we all perish trying to act not for each other. And, imo, inaction is still a certain form of action.

    I guess, it's just as simple....or as complex, as....that.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I disagree - or rather, I think that for the most part, causes need to be treated first. Using an example of disease - what is going to cause the greatest impact, money directed towards a round of 'cures' (even vaccines), or money directed towards sewage and/or water purification.
    Oh, just remembered a story, and thought I'd share with you (I think you'd appreciate the idea ): a group of interdisciplinary foreigners/aid workers working in collaboration (in a true sense)

    *from an english teacher - she started ingenious idea of using practice of the community's oral tradition to encourage women to keep a self-administered 'journal' by teaching them how to use tape recorder, {and not to provide names}...just talk, let it out. And, she was able to help thus collect data on HIV/AIDs spread and correlation to intimate partner violence amogst those sample of women. Evidence-based research on one of the many barriers plaguing efficiency in solution to the crisis in Africa.

    *to a couple of environmental engineers who created this eloquent sustainable, water pump system. Using... the community's natural environment's water/lake supply...rerouted...a water pump system.

    * people with agricultural background/environment specialists, who helped figure out the best way/plan/lay-out of using the land for agricultural productivity.

    *of course, the given medical care professionals (docs, nurses) - it was one doctor from this group who spear-headed this idea of interdisciplinary teamwork.

    * a psychiatrist and a social worker who worked with women on issues with women and their role in the labour force (the invisible force often, unrecognized) and other socio-psychological conditions of opression for women.

    * health and health promotion workers working in cooperation with their/the community's traditional midwives to promote education on safe labour practices (including awareness of clean sanitation) and yes, 'aid' as giving ...distribution of the birthing kit ("Mamma Kit")
    'Maama' Kits promote safe deliveries in Uganda

    This was an over-arching idea to join as a mutil-disciplinary team, and tackle a cachment area...just to see if they could accurately (a) evaluate issues (for later thought/evidence on policy level change/ideas), and, (b) help in a systematically targeted way. An exercise that worked well. Can't recall the project/grant, nor, the country. I hear a lot of these stories anecdotally from others who've lived (through/worked there/went) to tell their tales. ('tall tales' or otherwise)

    So, ideas such as the one above - makes me feel like we're at least, in some little ways, 'winning' this battle.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    and so I approach it from the point of view to let people conquer nature first.
    lol....good luck!


  8. #98
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    It's overwhelming to put it mildly, almost like it seems that no amount of human ingenuity, innovation, mind power (essentially) can solve this global crisis.
    We can. There is simply no incentive to.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    We can. There is simply no incentive to.

    And 'incentives' have to be tangible right? Like incentive to help merely for the sake of 'helping' isn't enough nor practical (just idealist, I guess). We have to be able to match our words with some economic gains (i.e., turn profit). Rite? sadly right.

  10. #100
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    And 'incentives' have to be tangible right? Like incentive to help isn't enough. We have to be able to match our words with some economic gains (i.e., turn profit).
    Feeling good is an incentive - but it's low on the list of human preferences. Economic gains is not the incentive, exactly. But if I send money to help someone, it deprives me of what I could of done with the money. If I spend time doing something, it takes away time that I could of done something else.

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