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  1. #81
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    who cares.... none of them are effective leaders to begin with.

    there i said it.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  2. #82
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    One should look behind the mere action (gift-giving) and realize there is something more symbolic behind it. Moreover, it is a tradition that has existed, and it's there for a purpose. Of course, if you look at it just on the basis of "Wow, he gave a shitty present." or "Damn, she ferked it up" yes, it does look pedantic, childish, and perhaps even petty. However, if you look behind the scenes...

    Do you all actually believe these were blunders? No one can actually be so stupid and openly admit inadequacy like that in international affairs...They turned around and made a seeming blunder into an indirect message - just nebulous enough so that no one could make any accusations and just clear enough not to be misinterpreted. At the least, it was a sign of disdain and/or disinterest. At worst, it was an open threat.

    And *that* my dear friends is something you *ought* to be concerned about...

    Admittedly, I'm talking more about the button than the DVDs...the DVDs was a sign of disdain/disinterest more than anything else. A sign of "We don't need you."
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  3. #83
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    One should look behind the mere action (gift-giving) and realize there is something more symbolic behind it. Moreover, it is a tradition that has existed, and it's there for a purpose. Of course, if you look at it just on the basis of "Wow, he gave a shitty present." or "Damn, she ferked it up" yes, it does look pedantic, childish, and perhaps even petty. However, if you look behind the scenes...

    Do you all actually believe these were blunders? No one can actually be so stupid and openly admit inadequacy like that in international affairs...They turned around and made a seeming blunder into an indirect message - just nebulous enough so that no one could make any accusations and just clear enough not to be misinterpreted. At the least, it was a sign of disdain and/or disinterest. At worst, it was an open threat.

    And *that* my dear friends is something you *ought* to be concerned about...

    Admittedly, I'm talking more about the button than the DVDs...the DVDs was a sign of disdain/disinterest more than anything else. A sign of "We don't need you."
    Most saw your point LL, however this action does not carry any real weight in the course of things, it will not make any significant impact to change anything at all. At it's best it will invite personal hostile stances between obama and brown or perhaps disrespect.

    Poltically britain and the USA will get along just fine despite gordon brown's wounded pride, they are too dependent on each other to regard this action with importance. In a month it will be forgotten.

    and also the russians realize that it was clinton being a clown more then anything, they are not keen on their intresets with the west being spoiled because of an idiot's choice.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  4. #84
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Most saw your point LL, however this action does not carry any real weight in the course of things
    I disagree. Perhaps - probably - there will be no longterm ramifications from either of these incidents, but LL has a legitimate point - in the language of diplomacy, which can be very symbolic and nebulous, these things do matter. You always want your relations with friendly nations to be running smoothly and well. It's awkward and amateurish to mishandle this stuff, and it reflects badly on whoever does it.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    One should look behind the mere action (gift-giving) and realize there is something more symbolic behind it. Moreover, it is a tradition that has existed, and it's there for a purpose. Of course, if you look at it just on the basis of "Wow, he gave a shitty present." or "Damn, she ferked it up" yes, it does look pedantic, childish, and perhaps even petty. However, if you look behind the scenes...

    Do you all actually believe these were blunders? No one can actually be so stupid and openly admit inadequacy like that in international affairs...They turned around and made a seeming blunder into an indirect message - just nebulous enough so that no one could make any accusations and just clear enough not to be misinterpreted. At the least, it was a sign of disdain and/or disinterest. At worst, it was an open threat.

    And *that* my dear friends is something you *ought* to be concerned about...

    Admittedly, I'm talking more about the button than the DVDs...the DVDs was a sign of disdain/disinterest more than anything else. A sign of "We don't need you."
    That's exactly the point I was trying to make. I didn't say it explicitly because we can't just assume that it was that sort of message. Still, its either incompetence or an intended message. One of the people in the white house who said after the interview, "Britain isn't more important than any other country." Considering Britain is one of our closest allies and has provided probably the largest amount of aid in Iraq, I can't say I agree with this sentiment or the president's choice to give such a present in return. I am pleased, however, that 9 pages after this topic began (with everyone scoffing at the subject as "unimportant"), people are now actually thinking about it and considering why these foreign relations blunders happened and what they may mean.

  6. #86
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Do you all actually believe these were blunders? No one can actually be so stupid and openly admit inadequacy like that in international affairs...They turned around and made a seeming blunder into an indirect message - just nebulous enough so that no one could make any accusations and just clear enough not to be misinterpreted. At the least, it was a sign of disdain and/or disinterest. At worst, it was an open threat.

    And *that* my dear friends is something you *ought* to be concerned about...

    ...the DVDs was a sign of disdain/disinterest more than anything else. A sign of "We don't need you."
    Of course it is a deliberate slight.

    And it tells us one very simple thing - power has shifted in the world.

    And devil take the hindmost.

  7. #87
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    That's exactly the point I was trying to make. I didn't say it explicitly because we can't just assume that it was that sort of message. Still, its either incompetence or an intended message. One of the people in the white house who said after the interview, "Britain isn't more important than any other country." Considering Britain is one of our closest allies and has provided probably the largest amount of aid in Iraq, I can't say I agree with this sentiment or the president's choice to give such a present in return. I am pleased, however, that 9 pages after this topic began (with everyone scoffing at the subject as "unimportant"), people are now actually thinking about it and considering why these foreign relations blunders happened and what they may mean.
    By the way, as a Brit.. the *only* place I found out about this was on the forum. I don't obsessively watch the news, but I tend to skim it every day and this never got a mention.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    By the way, as a Brit.. the *only* place I found out about this was on the forum. I don't obsessively watch the news, but I tend to skim it every day and this never got a mention.
    I read the Times and the Telegraph and it was in both of those newspapers, at least. I don't own a TV so I'm not sure about TV news, although I'd have thought there'd have been something about it; probably not a huge segment though.

  9. #89
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I read the Times and the Telegraph and it was in both of those newspapers, at least. I don't own a TV so I'm not sure about TV news, although I'd have thought there'd have been something about it; probably not a huge segment though.
    How was it handled in the paper? I could see the British press shrugging this off as "typical America" and managing to look condescending.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    By the way, as a Brit.. the *only* place I found out about this was on the forum.
    It's a personal message to those with power.

    It is a personal message about power to those in power.

    As far as those in power are concerned, it is their business not ours.

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