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Thread: Going Galt

  1. #21
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It is, in terms of the current world. It's not compared to the last 58 years in the US... not notably lower, like income tax, but lower. ( SOI Tax Stats - Historical Table 24 )

    You're right about the total tax burden being lower than it has been in the past, but it is still very weird to tax corporate income at about the same rate we tax individuals who make millions of dollars per year.
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  2. #22
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    This stuff seem to be quite standard here. My father's pay is around 3200 euros a month without taxes, something less than 2000 net. 1000 $ of taxes a month are a big deal only if you're below 2000, probably
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #23
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You're right about the total tax burden being lower than it has been in the past, but it is still very weird to tax corporate income at about the same rate we tax individuals who make millions of dollars per year.
    I tend to agree, but that's a bit outside the scope of the OP. The point here is that the sudden dislike of taxes (ie: "enough is enough") has very little rational component. It's triggered by external factors.

    Not to say that the current tax burden is ideal, or that spending shouldn't be cut. Only that the reactions have nothing to do with that ATM.

  4. #24
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I tend to agree, but that's a bit outside the scope of the OP. The point here is that the sudden dislike of taxes (ie: "enough is enough") has very little rational component. It's triggered by external factors.

    Not to say that the current tax burden is ideal, or that spending shouldn't be cut. Only that the reactions have nothing to do with that ATM.
    I think that there is a growing sentiment that our system is unfair, though. People tend not to notice the size of the federal government's budget, nor the (almost always smaller) size of its revenue. It's getting a lot of play right now because people resent how much money is going toward bailouts. One of the things that frustrates people like me is that, as much as Americans hate taxes, they LOVE spending. People always talk about how they want to shrink the size of government, but there is always a pet program that they want to see increased significantly. Maybe the outrageously large new budget will inspire more to think critically about what exact the government should be doing.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I think that there is a growing sentiment that our system is unfair, though. People tend not to notice the size of the federal government's budget, nor the (almost always smaller) size of its revenue. It's getting a lot of play right now because people resent how much money is going toward bailouts. One of the things that frustrates people like me is that, as much as Americans hate taxes, they LOVE spending. People always talk about how they want to shrink the size of government, but there is always a pet program that they want to see increased significantly. Maybe the outrageously large new budget will inspire more to think critically about what exact the government should be doing.
    All of which I tend to agree with. I approach it from the other end - the people want the services that government offers. Historically they had the tax rates to get them - at least reasonably so. Then, primarily, republican platforms gained strength by essentially cutting taxes without cutting services (but also not expanding the social component). This created the expectation that it was maintainable, which it was not. Worse, they tended to do this when the economy was already running near full capacity. Now that there is actually a reason to do deficit spending, it's nearly impossible. So is cutting services. So now the democrats, as always, come in and balance the budget - but expand services at the same time, which is a big mistake when the deficit will again increase by leaps and bounds the next time the rep party takes over.

    So yah, people feel it is unfair. It's not because they are being taxed at a high rate, etc. It's because this pattern forces poorer and poorer service at a higher and higher cost, because they were getting it for "free" before. Not sustainable, and no one wants to take responsibility.

    (I use "tend" here because we obviously don't agree on a lot of fundamentals, like what it should be spent on, and what is reasonable... but I don't disagree on where you are coming from.)

  6. #26
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Northern Europe has very progressive taxation and also has some of the best performing economies and some of the highest standards of living in the world.
    You mean Sweden, for example?

  7. #27
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    In Northern Europe, the streets teem with bright and happy homogenous faces, and everything is free.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  8. #28
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You mean Sweden, for example?
    Yup.

    First, let's look at GDP (Per capita): NationMaster - GDP (per capita) (most recent) by country

    And now, quality-of-life: Quality-of-Life Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  9. #29
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post

    I would probably look at GDP at PPP for more germane statistics of relative wealth by country.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I would probably look at GDP at PPP for more germane statistics of relative wealth by country.
    Agreed - NationMaster - GDP > PPP (per capita) (most recent) by country

    Not such a large gap that way.

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