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  1. #1
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    Default Two Countries Overturn Gay Military Ban

    Argentina

    While there are signs that neither the Obama administration nor the US Congress are in a rush to lift the damaging "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" military policy which requires that soldiers who disclose their homosexuality be kicked out of military service, there is some great news today from Argentina.

    A translated excerpt from an article published today in AG Magazine, one of the best LGBT news portals in Argentina:
    In Argentina, starting today, a new military justice system goes into effect which decriminalizes homosexuality among uniformed members, eliminates the death penalty, and moves crimes committed exclusively within the military to the public justice sphere [previously there had been a separate military court system].

    Under the old system, gays were not permitted to have access to a military career, at the same time as this sexual orientation was penalized. And, while there are no publicly known former sanctions against gays under the old policy, this does not mean that men and women with that sexual orientation have not been disciplined, and perhaps separated from the armed forces under a mantle of silence.

    In fact, with this new system, gay men or lesbian women who wish to train in the forces should encounter no impediment, nor any military retaliation areas.
    According to the AP, the new law replaces one that had been in the books since 1958, and goes into effect today, six months after it was approved by Argentina's legislative body and promoted by President Cristina Férnandez de Kirchner.

    Clarin says that the changes in the military code resulted, in part, from the American Convention on Human Rights strong opposition to the death penalty clause that existed in the previous code. Some see the changes as putting further distance between modern Argentina and its military dictatorship years, particularly since it puts the military under purview of the country's public courts.

    One more LGBT rights development in a Latin American nation that leap-frogs over current US policy.

    Blabbeando: Argentina: Ban on gay soldiers is lifted, effective today
    Philippines

    Gay men can go to war with brave Filipino soldiers, a military spokesman said as he announced Wednesday that members of the third sex can apply for enlistment in the Philippine Army.


    "We welcome them. We welcome everybody. We don't discriminate [gay] people here," Lt. Col. Romeo Brawner Jr., Army spokesman, told ABS-CBN's morning show, "Umagang Kay Ganda."

    Brawner said as long as an applicant is physically, emotionally and mentally fit, the Army would be proud to enlist them, including gay people.

    "They are allowed [and] of course they will have the same assignments. They can also go to war," the Army spokesman added.

    Brawner clarified that the Army or any other units of the Armed Forces of the Philippines does not discriminate gay people, including bisexual men.

    For this year, the Army needs to enlist 3,900 people. The military as a whole needs 6,700 new recruits this year, he said.

    On Tuesday, hundreds of Army applicants lined up at the Army's main recruitment center in Fort Bonifacio in Makati City.

    The Army said they are expecting more people to apply this year because of the massive layoff in electronics, garments and furniture factories.

    Several factories have closed shop in the country because of the decreasing export demand as an effect of the global economic crisis.

    Brawner said a candidate soldier receives P8,700 monthly. Training last from three months to four months, he said.

    Gay men can enter the Army | ABS-CBN News Online Beta




  2. #2
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    They all sound positive, except maybe for getting rid of the military justice system in Argentina. I kinda like that we have clear distinctions between civil justice, criminal justice, and military justice in the United States.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #3

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    We're seriously lagging in the world on our treatment of gay citizens.

    It's an embarrassment.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    We're seriously lagging in the world on our treatment of gay citizens.

    It's an embarrassment.
    Agreed.

    It's a reflection of interpersonal hierarchy intermingling with finance. Frozen social structure works to keep traditional power systems intact. (Religion; Caucasian males -- those who stand to benefit from intransigent social development are those who traditionally hold the greatest financial power. Avoiding external "waves" from outside forces protects a vacuum whereby the established order stands the greatest chance at maintaining control.)

    For those in charge, it makes sense to politically undermine minority sects who might threaten this hierarchy.

    When things change, people lose money.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    We're seriously lagging in the world on our treatment of gay citizens.

    It's an embarrassment.
    I think it's funny...... because it means we make even less sense to the world due to our inconsistancies. It just amuses me that we can have more gay cultural things/themes/etc than anyone yet have, by "modern" terms, a relatively anti-gay government ..... it's like, none of it even matters, because people are gonna do what they want to do anyway regardess of laws. So, they don't get to serve in the military? *gay voice* well, nnoooOooOooo problem, sir, I'll get right back in the gimp outfit, lickidy split!!

  6. #6
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Let us keep the Spartans in mind.

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    What is the world's problem? Does homosexuality make someone less militarily able? No. So wtf? Who thought to say this honestly? "Guys, so since they like the same gender, they can't serve our country." Sounds like an idiot to me. It all probably links to religion, and how separation of church and state isn't totally in effect in the US.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    What is the world's problem? Does homosexuality make someone less militarily able? No. So wtf? Who thought to say this honestly? "Guys, so since they like the same gender, they can't serve our country." Sounds like an idiot to me. It all probably links to religion, and how separation of church and state isn't totally in effect in the US.
    Homosexuals were considered security risks in the government for the longest time because of the possibility of blackmail. Most military people tried to make the "esprit de corps" argument, but it was mostly CYA in a more backward time. And there is also not really a "separation of Church and State" in the United States (although homosexuality shouldn't enter into the equation). That is another discussion, though.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    Let us keep the Spartans in mind.
    I concur! The Spartans were also extremely brutal and completely slaughtered enemies that were not Greek/capable of speaking Greek (aka barbarians) and also loved to kill off their own babies.... can we start doing those things too?!? By LORD I miss those good 'ol days of slaughterin'.... and yay infanticide!


    point here: the spartan culture is an EXTREMELY strange culture in comparison to ours, so I don't think it's "fair game" to have them pertain to our case here.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    What is the world's problem? Does homosexuality make someone less militarily able? No. So wtf? Who thought to say this honestly? "Guys, so since they like the same gender, they can't serve our country." Sounds like an idiot to me. It all probably links to religion, and how separation of church and state isn't totally in effect in the US.
    I think there's more to it than that... it's the same reason the military frowns upon fraternization and why spouses both married and in the military can cause issues: The precious Chain of Command. It's very easy to lose sight, as a civilian, how essential and time-honored the chain of command is to military life. A lover and a lovee is a vastly different relationship than that of a PFC/sgt relationship. A homosexual Seargent who is in love with one of his Privates and doesn't send him off to fight is jeoprodizing the security of the squad or platoon and is an obvious ethical conflict of interest... (if you're familiar with them, think Aristotle's guest/host relationship hizbiz)

    I mean, can you honestly say a group of 50 men deployed out in the field will behave in the same way or manner than a grup of 50 men + 15 women will? You know that ain't right!

    Southpark Episodes - 06x10 - Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society

    that's essentially what you're adding to the mix of a group of guys out there.... it just complicates matters is all the Generals are saying. then again, I was a marine and the army seemed to have more success with "mixing", but even then I often hear that the army usually indefinitely benches their female grunts, or has them stick to admin.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    I mean, can you honestly say a group of 50 men deployed out in the field will behave in the same way or manner than a grup of 50 men + 15 women will? You know that ain't right!

    Southpark Episodes - 06x10 - Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society

    that's essentially what you're adding to the mix of a group of guys out there.... it just complicates matters is all the Generals are saying. then again, I was a marine and the army seemed to have more success with "mixing", but even then I often hear that the army usually indefinitely benches their female grunts, or has them stick to admin.
    Are you stating that people regardless of sexual orientation, are incapable of being professionals?

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