User Tag List

First 2101112

Results 111 to 115 of 115

  1. #111
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    This:



    ...is not a moral statement or an argument. It is a fact. It does not deal with morality. For example: "In Iraq, US soldiers have commited atrocities" and "In Iraq, US soldiers have commited profound acts of bravery" - *both* of these statements are true, and *neither* of them makes an argument or advances a moral position.

    I have not stated that I believe the Nazis to be morally equivalent to the Allies. The fact that there were German soldiers who commited brave acts does not morally justify their cause. The fact that there were Allied soldiers who commited atrocities doesn't make their cause morally wrong. No sane person, and certainly no one in this thread, is advancing the idea that the Nazis were somehow right in their beliefs.

    NO ONE in this thread is guilty of making moral statements to the tune of "yay Nazis" and people discussing military tactics and specific events don't somehow materialize on the other ends of their discussions as Nazi sympathizers simply for discussing what the Nazis did/felt etc.

    Get a grip.
    The fact that there have been "brave acts" is quite irrelevant, because empirically, they had almost no effect on history. So I'm wondering why you have even tried to mention this.

    Again, see the results!

    And the results are atrocities committed on an unsurpassed scale. That's facts. That's what is really relevant. That's what we should really study.

    All the rest are lame excuses, if you want my opinion. And Victor was absolutely right to point you to the argument from Moral Equivalence (a classic sophistry), because that's exactly what you did.

    Whether you have done this by sheer ignorance or purposefully is another story. But frankly, I don't care.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  2. #112
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    xNFP
    Posts
    6,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    With all due respect, Little Linguist, Hannah Arendt was a first hand witness of what happened in Germany during the 30's.

    Furthermore, I'm not asking you to adopt these ideas, but to begin to study them, because it's only a first step. For instance, one has to study Plato if he wants to discover what Philosophy is all about. It doesn't mean you will become a platonist, but well, you have to begin with the beginning.

    Of course, Arendt is not easy to read, and we are obviously not from the same mental and cultural universe. To fully understand her, you would have to delve into phenomenology, into Heidegger and the real intellectual theories behind Totalitarianism.
    Being familiar with the works of early sociologists (From Weber to Sombart) could also ease your task.





    You have no distinct advantage whatsover, believe me. I've studied this aspect of history too, I'm litterally surrounded with historians around me (Remember I work within an University network). Und ich verstehe Deutsch.
    Just in case you would wonder why, well, my best friend since childhood is German, and I have lived with a German girl during 5 years (In Berlin and Munich).




    ENTPs deal with debates rather aggressively, that doesn't mean we are emotionally charged.
    And I have to admit that making fun of people (like you or Peguy) who have a romantic view about WWII is quite entertaining, somehow. That's the classic fight between Idealists and Realists.

    So don't try to reverse roles, that's a puerile defense, that's what kids do.







    You know, the guards in Auschwitz were human beings too. We all are, so basically your argument is pointless.

    And every human being share a very dark side, that's rather what you do not want to understand.

    I think that most ordinary people can be turned into "wanton murderous maniacs", given the proper training and surroundings. You want to see something positive even within the Waffen-SS, a way to redeem them, I do not. That's the difference between you and me.

    And that's why I do not post the same documents as Peguy. We do not show the same thing, we are not interested at the same things. Glorifying war is not my cup of tea. Romanticism is not my cup of tea. Giving false excuses to anybody is not my cup of tea.

    Again, I only see the results.

    Only the results.

    I have to recognize that the smell of decaying corpses is not very romantic.
    But do you want to talk about WWII, or about your imaginary war?





    What is maturity, tell me!
    Is it only an attitude?

    Frankly, purposefully eluding atrocities is not very mature, especially when these atrocities really made the difference between WWII and any other wars in history.

    Again, the civilian casualties were more than twice the military ones. I'm just wondering why you do not want to talk about what happened to the large majority of victims there.
    Regarding your suggestion with Arendt, we'll see - I'll give pretty any author a shot once...although after reading a sketch of her biography, I can't imagine that she would be very unbiased....That's okay, though, I have read lots of biased literature on both sides, especially during my studies....

    Soooo, you can speak German - perhaps we can have a go at it in the German thread. My German isn't perfect, and I assume yours isn't either, but that would provide extra amusement on my part....

    You are evaluating our discussion based on your own subjective viewpoint, which lacks any basis in fact, and I am more than slightly amused over your tendency to criticize the posters rather than address the matter at hand. Tell me: Do you have any substance? Can we expect a thesis or a matter about WWII any time soon, or simply your very amusing attempts to attack what we say based on assertions completely lacking in substance?

    Indeed, I would be very interested to hear real, substantive arguments and go at you based on that. However, if all you have to offer my mind is subjective attempts to impugn my character, I will have to say that I'll pass.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  3. #113
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Regarding your suggestion with Arendt, we'll see - I'll give pretty any author a shot once...although after reading a sketch of her biography, I can't imagine that she would be very unbiased....
    Why would she be more biased than any other witness or thinker?



    You are evaluating our discussion based on your own subjective viewpoint, which lacks any basis in fact, and I am more than slightly amused over your tendency to criticize the posters rather than address the matter at hand. Tell me: Do you have any substance? Can we expect a thesis or a matter about WWII any time soon, or simply your very amusing attempts to attack what we say based on assertions completely lacking in substance?

    Indeed, I would be very interested to hear real, substantive arguments and go at you based on that. However, if all you have to offer my mind is subjective attempts to impugn my character, I will have to say that I'll pass.
    50.000.000 civilian casualties is surely what we can call "a lack of substance". :rolli:

    Maybe they are not that important, you tell me!

    I'm sure the picture of 3 Waffen-SS cuddling a kitten is far more enlightening, should we try to understand what really happened during that conflict...
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  4. #114
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    xNFP
    Posts
    6,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Why would she be more biased than any other witness or thinker?





    50.000.000 civilian casualties is surely what we can call "a lack of substance". :rolli:

    Maybe they are not that important, you tell me!

    I'm sure the picture of 3 Waffen-SS cuddling a kitten is far more enlightening, should we want to try what really happened during that conflict...
    You are most adept at turning my most innocuous statements into utter monstrosities - please tell me you are being facetious and not just obtuse? How would you venture a foolish statement like that unless you were making a joke!!??? Of course I do not consider the deaths of 50 million individuals to be lacking in substance. On the other hand, I do consider your arguments to be drastically lacking in substance. Are you going to beat this number over our heads??? A statement of fact that every child is aware of??? Or are you going to make any other theses or statements? I'm still waiting, my dear sir...still waiting...I venture I will still have to wait quite a long time....

    By the way, if you want to engage in this foolish quarreling for your own amusement, I would be happy to do so in another thread in a more appropriate area, such as the graveyard or your own blog....In this thread, I shall engage in no more of this foolish gibberish and still wait for your own unique perspective regarding WWII that neither spews the ideas of another person nor makes personal attacks....
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  5. #115
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    empirically, they had almost no effect on history.
    Agreed.

    And the results are atrocities committed on an unsurpassed scale. That's facts.
    Agreed.

    because that's exactly what you did
    No, it isn't.

    Read, Blackmail. Read my words: I. do. not. assign. moral. equivalence. to. the nazis. and. the. allies.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

Similar Threads

  1. Japanese PM Shinzo Abe to skip World War II 70th anniversary events in China
    By Olm the Water King in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-24-2015, 03:26 PM
  2. Jeremy Jahns (ENTP) World War Z movie review
    By Mal12345 in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-23-2013, 07:16 AM
  3. World War II
    By ilikeitlikethat in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-28-2012, 03:31 PM
  4. World War II
    By Nicodemus in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-20-2010, 07:09 AM
  5. Let's Discuss Te/Fi,Fi/Te vs. Ti/Fe, Fe/Ti
    By Thalassa in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-04-2010, 02:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO