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  1. #41
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    The free market should be setting interest rates.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #42
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I think you're off-base here. Most economists argue that New Deal spending at best helped to lessen the worst byproducts of the Great Depression (people on the streets and not being able to eat), but that it also lengthened the duration of the Depression. Even WWII government spending didn't get us out of the Great Depression (and much of that spending was private sector, not public). The country did not fully recover from the Depression until the 1950s.




    A) We are no longer an industrial economy;

    B) Our economic "success" in this nation was not at the same level as it was between the Civil War and the 1920s;

    and C) economic freedom is tied directly to the economic health and dynamism of nations in the world. This is easy to see. Look at the mostly free economies worldwide vs. the most unfree ones. It's as clear as day that freer economies are wealthier. There is absolutely no debate about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I care little about what public opinion at large is. It would be great if most Americans cared more about the free market system, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Most Americans couldn't tell you what comparative advantage is, and they probably wouldn't believe that it's true even if they did understand it.




    Cite examples. I cannot name one prominent free-market economist who has become a Keynesian recently. And I don't mean people who normally are pro-free market but are for the stimulus package or the bailouts. I want names of free-market economists who are now Keynesian.
    The economies that come the closest to having a free-market like Singapore, Somalia, Hong Kong etc. have recent histories of human rights and political dissension abuse.

    This lists some of the free-marketers that have came out in favor of Keynesian/stimulus policies:
    2008-2009 Keynesian resurgence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It also explains nicely the recent shift towards Keynesian economics.

  3. #43
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The free market should be setting interest rates.
    if this is referring to me, i wasnt making a normative statement about what the Fed should and shouldnt be doing. just a positive statement that in the past the US simply lowered interest rates like it was this "magic fix all" and then they never bothered to raise it back up (in order to prolong the use of this "magic fix all")

    im much more informed on the history of governments and the effects of their policies than i am on the actual inter workings of finance and money supply etc.

  4. #44
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Everyone knows...
    You lost me right there, dude.

  5. #45
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You lost me right there, dude.
    Man, you were lost well before that.

  6. #46
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The economies that come the closest to having a free-market like Singapore, Somalia, Hong Kong etc. have recent histories of human rights and political dissension abuse.
    Wow, that is the biggest dodge I have ever seen on these boards. I argue that the freest economies in the world produce the WEALTHIEST countries in the world (true, undeniable), and you bring up human rights in Singapore. That's hilarious. BTW, Hong Kong's human rights are actually quite good, but we shall see how the PRC fairs in the next few decades.


    This lists some of the free-marketers that have came out in favor of Keynesian/stimulus policies:
    2008-2009 Keynesian resurgence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It also explains nicely the recent shift towards Keynesian economics.
    First of all, Wikipedia is hardly an unbiased resource. Secondly, I see one paragraph that mentions free-marketeers changing their minds (Martin Wolf is the only one) . The other economists listed are hardly market fundamentalists. Robert Shiller is pro-market forces, while advocating an "American System" type of arrangement. Are you trying to argue that Paul Krugman is somehow a free-market fanatic?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #47
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Man, you were lost well before that.
    I'm glad that's your perspective on me.

    If it were otherwise, I would have to do some serious soul-searching.

  8. #48
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Wow, that is the biggest dodge I have ever seen on these boards. I argue that the freest economies in the world produce the WEALTHIEST countries in the world (true, undeniable), and you bring up human rights in Singapore. That's hilarious. BTW, Hong Kong's human rights are actually quite good, but we shall see how the PRC fairs in the next few decades.
    "Freest economies" do correlate to good GDP. Unfortunately for the freest of the economies, they also correlate with human and political rights abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    First of all, Wikipedia is hardly an unbiased resource. Secondly, I see one paragraph that mentions free-marketeers changing their minds (Martin Wolf is the only one) . The other economists listed are hardly market fundamentalists. Robert Shiller is pro-market forces, while advocating an "American System" type of arrangement. Are you trying to argue that Paul Krugman is somehow a free-market fanatic?
    References are clearly listed, in case you suspect the article is biased.

  9. #49
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    "Freest economies" do correlate to good GDP. Unfortunately for the freest of the economies, they also correlate with human and political rights abuse.
    First of all, GDP per capita is EXACTLY what we were talking about. Secondly, you're absolutely, positively wrong. I'll show you a list of the 20 freest economies in the world and the 20 most unfree economies of the world, and you tell me which countries have worse human and political rights abuse. There is no way an intelligent person can make the claim you are making.

    In fact, here is the Fraser Institute's 2009 Index of Economic Freedom.

    List of countries by economic freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Look at the top countries and look at the bottom and tell me there is a fucking correlation between free markets and human and political rights abuse.


    References are clearly listed, in case you suspect the article is biased.
    References don't make something biased or unbiased, and you know that. I hate when you resort to being disingenuous when you lose an argument.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #50
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    First of all, GDP per capita is EXACTLY what we were talking about. Secondly, you're absolutely, positively wrong. I'll show you a list of the 20 freest economies in the world and the 20 most unfree economies of the world, and you tell me which countries have worse human and political rights abuse. There is no way an intelligent person can make the claim you are making.

    In fact, here is the Fraser Institute's 2009 Index of Economic Freedom.

    List of countries by economic freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Look at the top countries and look at the bottom and tell me there is a fucking correlation between free markets and human and political rights abuse.




    References don't make something biased or unbiased, and you know that. I hate when you resort to being disingenuous when you lose an argument.
    From that list, the two freest economies in the world, by a good deal, are Singapore and Hong-Kong. The least free economies at the bottom of the list are of course not very free politically. The mixed market economies I like aren't at the bottom, they have 3x to 8x times freer markets than the bottom, by your list.

    Now I regret to inform you of the Singapore and Hong-Kong human rights controversy. You probably don't want to acknowledge that in any way, I don't blame you.

    Human rights in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Human rights in Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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