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  1. #21
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Nope. Common sense seems to die wherever the government comes and lays its hand down. Everything the government has done and is doing is nonsensical, and is encouraging more of the nonsense. The free market adheres to common sense principles, sustainable practices, and efficiency when the government does not interfere. When the government interferes, they begin to do things that DON'T MAKE SENSE. Common sense is all but dead and gone in this country...
    Because the government put a gun to the lenders heads and MADE them falsify documents in order to give loans to people the either knew or should've known (It's their job to know) couldn't afford them. Right, stupid government.

    Edit: Oh and Gwaddamn you government for making Madoff and others like him bilk people!!! GOVERNMEEEEEENT!!!

    Edit: If letting Lehman Brothers collapse is real capitalism, and letting them collapse triggered this current collapse, and it was the governments decision to let Lehman go bankrupt...
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post

    Edit: If letting Lehman Brothers collapse is real capitalism, and letting them collapse triggered this current collapse, and it was the governments decision to let Lehman go bankrupt...
    It would've happened anyway because the housing bubble had grown too large. The economy was due for recession and due to crash one way or another.

  3. #23
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The reason Rick Santelli's rant doesn't really work is because wall-street and financial types have much of the current public sentiment against them. Maybe if Santelli was a factory worker instead of a commodity trader, and the video showed this, it would be more legitimate.

    What does that have to do with anything? Frankly, I find this type of rant to be much more compelling coming from a trader, because A) he is more intimately aware of the positives of free market economies; and B) he hasn't sold out his principles. Plenty of financial sector workers love a free market. . . until they lose money. Then it's bailouts and new regulation and anything else that distorts the market process but saves them from losing more money.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #24
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    This guy has rattled the Obama Administration, and got them to use some very specious rhetoric. I love it.

    WH lashes out at CNBC's Santelli
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #25
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    What does that have to do with anything? Frankly, I find this type of rant to be much more compelling coming from a trader, because A) he is more intimately aware of the positives of free market economies; and B) he hasn't sold out his principles. Plenty of financial sector workers love a free market. . . until they lose money. Then it's bailouts and new regulation and anything else that distorts the market process but saves them from losing more money.
    Of course you would find it compelling. I'm talking about public opinion at large. I can't see this sort of thing having much effect at all.

    More and more prominent free-marketers are starting to change their positions and acknowledge the problems with the market that require government intervention. Keynesian economics is on a resurgence, and for good reason.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Of course you would find it compelling. I'm talking about public opinion at large. I can't see this sort of thing having much effect at all.

    More and more prominent free-marketers are starting to change their positions and acknowledge the problems with the market that require government intervention. Keynesian economics is on a resurgence, and for good reason.
    Yes, because Keynesian economic is so so good at extending depressions and making them GREAT depressions. We just love our GREAT depressions, the ones that last longer and harder than just regular useless depressions. Jeez, I can just TASTE the air of 1930, with plenty of Keynesian economics piled on top for extra freaking flavor !

  7. #27
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Yes, because Keynesian economic is so so good at extending depressions and making them GREAT depressions. We just love our GREAT depressions, the ones that last longer and harder than just regular useless depressions. Jeez, I can just TASTE the air of 1930, with plenty of Keynesian economics piled on top for extra freaking flavor !
    Even most on the Right will admit that government spending got us out of the Great Depression. Whether it was WWII spending or New Deal spending.

    Keynesian economics got its start during the Great Depression and saw us through much economic success. In fact, almost every successful industrial economy is a mixed market to some degree, with most leaning closer to the Left.

  8. #28
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    It would've happened anyway because the housing bubble had grown too large. The economy was due for recession and due to crash one way or another.
    That is an assumption you simply can't know the answer to. Meaning, even if your premise of the inevitability of the recession/crash, would it have been this extreme or this fast? And the fact that it was the governments decision to allow this, which is what you say you wanted to happen (you advocate real capitalism which posits you want the crash to happen as it should according to theory if not practice) was my point...
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    That is an assumption you simply can't know the answer to. Meaning, even if your premise of the inevitability of the recession/crash, would it have been this extreme or this fast? And the fact that it was the governments decision to allow this, which is what you say you wanted to happen (you advocate real capitalism which posits you want the crash to happen as it should according to theory if not practice) was my point...
    A crash is a crash. It always occurs with speed.

    As far as allowing companies to fail, I advocate it because

    1. The government doesn't know how to manage the crisis effectively, they are not competent enough.

    2. The government SHOULD NOT intervene in the free market system. Yes, letting the titans fall will spur a rapid decent into a depression. It would effect us all. However, the system would turn around in RELATIVELY short order and the system would be forced to be rebuilt on sound principles. In the end, it would come out bigger and better because that's how the system operates. In capitalism and the free market, people have the impetus to innovate and rebuild, and it is always a step beyond what they had before.

    3. The government intervening in this way is going to prolong the depression the same way it did in the last GREAT depression. "God this fire is big! I don't have any water, but if I just keep throwing this gasoline on it, then it has to choke out the flames eventually!" The only thing we will have to show for them driving our system further into the flames so that they can try to alleviate the pain is a bunch of debt, a collapsed dollar, and a multitude of changes we may never come back from.

    What people don't want to accept is that we are going to have pain either way. Either you get sick now, suffer the fever, and ride it out til you get all better and feel better than you did before, or you take a medicine that takes away your symptoms for a time but slowly poisons you as well until you become even sicker than you would without the medicine. Once the illness has run its course, your strength and vitality is less than it was before, something that could've been avoided by not taking the toxic medicine.

    4. The government's actions are going to disenfranchise people if it continues like this. What you saw in the OP. You guys have to realize not everyone is liberal like yourselves, and there is a great portion of the population that is going to be pushed into the wall until they lash back.

  10. #30
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    UPDATE:

    This guy has rattled the Obama Administration, and got them to use some very specious rhetoric. I love it.

    WH lashes out at CNBC's Santelli
    Wow, that was pretty brutal. The fact that he spends more time flinging personal insults at the reporter than actually explaining what tenants of Obama's plan would prove the reporter wrong is telling.

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