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View Poll Results: What do you think of exercising 'eye for an eye' retribution?

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  • 'Eye for an eye' is as ancient as it is just.

    19 42.22%
  • I'm with Gandhi on this; 'an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind!"

    20 44.44%
  • Well... <insert commentary via post>

    6 13.33%
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  1. #61
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The eye-for-an-eye principle is that there are consequences for choosing to violate someone. His being in prison is not a personal violation.

    This principle is a kind of forced empathy for the violator. Cruelty requires dehumanizing the other person, so having the same harm experienced by self could end the dehumanizing assumptions in a quick and shocking way. For the person who cannot connect enough to another human being to realize that hurting them is equivalent to hurting self, then this kind of retribution makes that known in an unmistakable way. When a person has empathy, they understand this relationship in a real way and it prevents the person from violating the other. Violating another person does violate self even though the cruel mind cannot comprehend that this is what they have done. The perpetrator is already blinded by his willingness to harm another. This is not to conclude he should or should not be punished by being blinded.
    Yeah, this is why I question whether he'll be made more or less empathetic by being blinded. I agree with your assessment here, that it forces someone to look at someone else with more compassion--because it produces empathy, a feeling of shared pain, and literally shoves the bad guy into the victim's shoes. I'm talking about most normal people, not sociopaths or anything like that.

    But... I also question how much anger and hatred this is going to produce. Ultimately, I guess it's all just speculation. People respond very differently to the exact same stimulus, and one reaction isn't necessarily any more valid or likely than another. But that's what my mind immediately thinks about--what reaction he's going to have to being blinded. Will he feel the punishment is unfair and seek even more revenge? He may not be able to hurt her himself, being blind, but he's probably got friends--he could theoretically have someone else do his dirty work for him, and it might not just be the blind woman who's terrorized, but her family and friends as well. I don't know if my ponderings produce anything, but I just speculate about the various responses he might have.

    Humans have a way of rationalizing anything, and they always rationalize things so that they are benefitted by it in some way--they're biased in favor of themselves. Just because he's put through the same thing doesn't necessarily mean he'll be made more empathetic.

    I like what someone said about it maybe being a worse fate not to be punished for his wrongs. Don't give him a reason to feel he made up for anything, don't give him a reason to say, "I paid for my crime," or a reason to feel sorry for himself. Just see if the guilt does him worse over time than anything else anyone might have done to him. Maybe it'll be a ticking time bomb, something that gnaws away at his guts and decimates his self-respect. Possible.

    Edit: I guess I approach this mostly from the perspective of wanting him to learn something from this experience, to be rehabilitated. I feel bad for her, and I'd want what ultimately benefitted her the most, but I need to balance what's going to benefit her with what's going to benefit everyone else, too--including our villain. Because I think what truly benefits him is going to benefit everyone else.
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  2. #62
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I know all too well some people never feel guilty for the crimes they committ. If people would be eaten up by guilt all the time... punishments would be easier across the board.
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  3. #63
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    What do you mean?
    i mean that her life is ruined so wanting him to be blind as well is the least he can offer her and not crazy from where i'm sitting. in fact under the circumstances i'd say her behavior is quite sane. he still won't be as ugly as she now is but at least he hopefully won't enjoy his remaining years. if it were me i'd probably want to die.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  4. #64
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    i mean that her life is ruined so wanting him to be blind as well is the least he can offer her and far from crazy. in fact under the circumstances i'd say her behavior is quite sane. he still won't be as ugly as she now is but at least he hopefully won't enjoy his remaining years. if it were me i'd probably want to die.
    You know uhm, like, prison? Or something like that? I don't understand how people are really arguing over if this guy should be blinded or not. Wtf?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #65
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing how this woman could possibly be benefiting in any way, shape or form.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  6. #66
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Oh c'mon, how do you "define" crazy? Even worse, not as a technical illness, but as a qualifier as I used it in my sentence?
    I equate crazy with some sort of mental disorder. I don't think this woman is crazy, not even close. Nor do I believe that anyone who pursues retribution is necessarily crazy. I think that term is thrown around far too readily as a way to dismiss people by demeaning them, as you have done.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #67
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I equate crazy with some sort of mental disorder. I don't think this woman is crazy, not even close. Nor do I believe that anyone who pursues retribution is necessarily crazy. I think that term is thrown around far too readily as a way to dismiss people by demeaning them, as you have done.
    Of course I didn't mean it as a mental disorder. When you see an accident on the street, and some people says "craazy", does it mean that the driver had a mental disorder? Or maybe, just maybe, that it has to be interpreted in a contextual way? Last but not least, notice how I have used "it" and not "she", from which you should of course have deduced that I was not referring to a mental disorder of the woman but rather to the situation.
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  8. #68
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    blinded and castrated. anything else?
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #69
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    Do you think this punishment will do anything to make him a better person? Do you think being blinded will make him more capable of treating others with respect and compassion? Hmmm. I'd say no, but that's an initial guess.

    Her logic that blinding him will set an example - and ultimately benefit the human race - is pretty good. It probably will set an example. But he's already spent, what, three years in prison? That's no small price. Nothing as great as sight, but three years of your life is not a small price. I think something of an example may have already been set. Hopefully, a vengeful man (oh, there's that word again) will ask himself before throwing acid on a woman who has not returned his affections, "Is this worth spending three or more years in prison?"
    The thing is, prison sentences are very often not enough to deter someone from committing violent acts. Offenders are often resigned to the fact that they'll live their lives in prison, but when you put something like the death penalty on the table, they do everything they possibly can to avoid getting the same punishment they doled out to their victims. Ted Bundy was a good example of this. A lot of times, I think these people are so self-centered, so sociopathic, that they just don't care to understand the pain from their victim's perspective. They will do the time, and no, jail time isn't a really fun experience, but you can bet that this guy will be freaking out at the thought of having the same experience as his victim--all of a sudden it will be more real to him. It was okay for him to take her vision--but people like this count on the fact that nothing of the sort will happen to them in return.

    For me, what makes harsher penalties valid is the fact that the victim never had the choice to be blinded or raped or murdered. I've never understood why the perpetrator often gets better than the victim. Most victims probably would have chosen jail time over being violated. But they don't get that choice.

    Frankly, I don't care much about rehabilitating a complete psycho. He had his shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think it's crazy. I accept it if it's istantaenous: somebody tries to hurt/kill/steal from somebody else, and the victim or somebody that is around hurts badly/kills the other guy. But done in a conscious way, it's crazy. It would have been "okay" if just right after the fact the woman striked the guy to the eyes making him blind.
    Why is it okay for a person to work himself up into an obsessive frenzy and blind an innocent person, but not okay for him to receive the same punishment? I mean, yes, it's more calculated, but he is far more deserving of the fate of blindness than she was.

    Wow, Jen, those videos--so sad. And she had beautiful eyes, too. This guy has completely ruined her life. That's a prison sentence for her, if I've ever seen one.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    In regards to the OP, I do think its bullshit that she doesnt just say "Yeah fuck him, hell an eye for a leg. Cut his balls off while your at it!" But I do believe in the concept of an "Eye for an Eye".

    Its kind of funny that so many people shun it though when one of the golden rules most kids are taught in their early years in America is "Treat others how you want to be treated"...its the same thing just worded differently.

    I am 100% for brutal punishment, ive been saying for years that we should just adopt caning, and make it fucking public. That will stop rapists...or atleast make them try harder...

    Seriously though I am for it, blind the asshole. But I will leave with something that ive kinda lived my entire life with and always will.

    "If a man should slap you on one cheek, smash him on the other!"
    SDMF

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