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  1. #41
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Well, the amount of power you use does affect others in some way.. its like saying that "I can shit on the sidewalk wherever and whenever I want because it's my shit and I can do whatever I want with it!"
    This is not why I support the program, at all...this a ridiculous reason to support it.

    Risen: I just want information and power companies aren't operating in a free market. They have government sanctioned monopolies. Meaning, there is no market pressure to provide a better product (more information). The only way we'll get more information is by government mandate because government eliminated competition.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #42
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The only way we'll get more information is by government mandate because government eliminated competition.
    How did they do that...? Normally the grid is considered a natural monopoly... The states stepped in to prevent that, more or less dictating the terms of the monopoly. It's fundamentally the same problem as roads, except there are two stacked monopolies - generation and distribution.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post

    Risen: I just want information and power companies aren't operating in a free market. They have government sanctioned monopolies. Meaning, there is no market pressure to provide a better product (more information). The only way we'll get more information is by government mandate because government eliminated competition.
    I see your point. It's quite a conundrum isn't it? The more we ask for government to do things for us and exercise more power and control where it doesn't belong, the more dependent we become on government. It's an illness that perpetuates itself. Let me tell you guys something; government will NEVER do anything better than the private sector can or better than what is created through the free market. Government is, by its nature, inefficient and unproductive in large amounts. Sigh...

  4. #44
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    How did they do that...? Normally the grid is considered a natural monopoly... The states stepped in to prevent that, more or less dictating the terms of the monopoly. It's fundamentally the same problem as roads, except there are two stacked monopolies - generation and distribution.
    I disagree that it is fundamentally the same as roads. It's more similar to telephone.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #45
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I disagree that it is fundamentally the same as roads. It's more similar to telephone.
    Fair enough. In reality it's not really either, as power has transmission losses, giving a geographic monopoly/advantage, combined with the redundant infrastructure needed for the grid in and of itself.

    Course, telephones were a pretty natural monopoly as well, until cell phones and the like started to naturally break it up.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Fair enough. In reality it's not really either, as power has transmission losses, giving a geographic monopoly/advantage, combined with the redundant infrastructure needed for the grid in and of itself.

    Course, telephones were a pretty natural monopoly as well, until cell phones and the like started to naturally break it up.
    Deregulation of the telecommunications industry in the 90s (under Clinton, no less) helped. Before the deregulation, the industry was dominated by companies like Southwestern Bell. After, those companies are still strong, but there have been many smaller companies that have risen (and fallen). And since that time, we've seen a plethora of improvements to telephone service (caller ID, lower rates, etc). Cell phones joined the party after it had already started.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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