User Tag List

First 3456 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 55

  1. #41
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Okay, mycroft, I'll agree with you.

    But let me propose, for consideration, a pair of new predictes called troo and faltze. A statement is troo, if and only if, it has, or will, at some point be true, and otherwise it is faltze.

    Since the pursuit of truth is no longer very interesting to me, I think I shall instead pursue trooth. Now replace all instances of the word 'true' with 'true', and 'false' with 'faltze', in my previous post.

    You are a very confused chap.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  2. #42
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    My reasoning only works if it is valid, and it is not valid because you or I are determinists.

    The whole free will vs. determinism debate is completely absurd. For there to be free will, there can be no true statements about future decisions (or any rule/law which predicts such statements), otherwise the future has been "determined". But there can only be no true statements about future decisions if there are no future decisions, which also means, of course, that there can be no free will. In other words, there is no free will either way.

    But is that what people ordinarily mean when they talk about free will? Is the existence of true statements about the future so bad? Are people suddenly not responsible for their actions? How would that even follow? And besides, if there exist true statements about future decisions (and therefore, laws which predict them), then decisions are actually being made. They may not satisfy the philosophers lofty and paradoxical notion of free will, but perhaps they decisions satisfy a more everyday and sensible concept of free will.

    Determinism is trivially true and free will-ism is absurd. It's ethical determinism which is really puzzling. but why not simply begin trying to understand what decisions actually are, since they are obviously not what defies the laws of logic. What, for example, seperates decision-making systems, like humans, from other objects? What are the objective characteristics of a system which considers alternatives and selects a course of action? We all understand how natural selection works: would anyone claim that nothing is really selected because it is possible to predict what will be selected?
    That sounds like an essay I wrote a few years ago.

    P.S. If I was a probabilist (I just made up that word), I would disagree. I would say each state of the universe is associated with a probabilistic distribution of possible next states of the universe. There would be no way to know the next state until it happens. Now, I think that's pretty ridiculous, but...it's possible, and doesn't go against any evidence we've seen.

  3. #43
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Actually, the future is set in stone.
    actually , if you want to argue metahyusically, "does the future even exist?"
    How do you know the future is not just a projection of our brain?

    How do you know time really exist or not? The future is not set in stone, it can be altered by an infinite numbver of variavbles. for instance if time ceased to exist, the future ceased to exist also.

    And time itself is just a projection of the brain.

    I would say that a collective view of the furture exist. Whether the future exist or not in any form other than words and information is still debatable.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  4. #44
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Okay, mycroft, I'll agree with you.

    But let me propose, for consideration, a pair of new predictes called troo and faltze. A statement is troo, if and only if, it has, or will, at some point be true, and otherwise it is faltze.

    Since the pursuit of truth is no longer very interesting to me, I think I shall instead pursue trooth. Now replace all instances of the word 'true' with 'true', and 'false' with 'faltze', in my previous post.

    You are a very confused chap.
    According to the bolded statement, "Elvis is alive" would be a troo statement. Those people who claimed to see him weren't lying or halucinating like I originally thought. I simply misunderstood them, because they had a different definition for "trooth". I wonder if that works in court. "You see, your honor, I swore to tell the 'trooth', but not necessarily the 'truth'."
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  5. #45
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Heh, I was going to complain about philosophy and economics, but they do such a good job of showing how uncertain the future is that it's rather pointless. It's strangely reflective that in a thread where economists really have no clue, we have philosophers telling us that the future is certain. Within a set of all possible outcomes, of course. It's certain cause we are certain that the a future must come from a set of events, even though most people would say that a near infinite elements in a set doesn't give "certainty" much meaning.

    --

    Anyway, this reminds me of how another scam is done - by sending out notification of future events, but covering both sides of events, you end up with half the people thinking you make accurate predictions. You split that half into two, predicting something else... and after a while, you have a good set of suckers.

    Except in this case, you just get people predicting the collapse of everything every year, and eventually they are right. Most of the time things just go on (I remember post just like this for the Nasdaq, and I even have a paper newsletter back from the 90s that was pretty much the same).

    On the plus side, I am just as right about the economy to date as well... well, far more than chance, anyway. And certainly more right than Peter Schiff, the first example in the OP. Unlike him, I predicted a limited run up of gold, that the USD would stabilize (I didn't expect the recovery, mind you), the housing market would turn, credit would dry up... and so forth.

    Strangely, predicting the outcome of herd behavior doesn't prevent people from acting. Just look around for how many are withdrawing money from the markets - it's pretty much all self-fulfilling. Just as people act in a bubble, so do people predict gloom and doom. Again, Peter Schiff is an example of that - as he's gone all survivalist on us. Anyone want to assign a probability on that particular element in the set of all possible elements becoming the one true future?

  6. #46
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Another interview with Gerald Celente

    [youtube="9nJ7LM3iyNg"]Gerlad Celente: Russia[/youtube]

    RT: You have been trend casting since 1980, more than two decades. How do you compile your information and why do you believe youve been so spot-on most of the time?

    G.C.: Current events form future trends. You can see whats going on. A great scholar said, In today already walks tomorrow. So we say current events form future trends. But when people look at the trends, they colour them or shade them with their own ideology, their own beliefs. Its what they want, what they hope for, what they wish for.

    Im a political atheist. I look at things for the way they are, not the way I want them to be. I dont colour them or try to change them because of an ideology. The other major factor that we do differently at Trends Research Institute than anywhere else is we look at over 300 different categories on a global basis. So were looking at economics, were looking at politics, were looking at changes in the family, were looking at geopolitics. Were making connections between different fields continually.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Liquid,

    There is a set of true statements about the future. Whatever the members of that set, we cannot change them (if we changed a member, then it would never have been a member to begin with). No statements that are not members of that set are possibly true, even though they may be consistent with physical law. If they are not members of the set, then they are false, and therefore, impossible. It is not possible for a false statement to be true.
    Are you talking about linear time line, as in no deviation from dimension #4? Interesting theory but I don't know if it is possible to prove (if you believe in dimensions #5 and #6). Without going into long details, I agree with some of your premises but not in the way it is reached.

    TO EVERYONE ELSE: While I agree things are worse then they really are, I highly recommend you start looking at this from an optimistic and opportunist way. If you fall, get back up! Yes things are going to be very tough, and there are people possibly making it worse, but I believe in America like she is a phoenix. However, a phoenix does have to die to be reborn. So I suggest learning skills that are not only usefull from a job perspective, but personal. Learn how to make box gardens. Learn hydroponics. Learn Solar and Wind Power methods for your home. Learn to be self sufficient. That is what everyone needs to be...

    INNOVATIVE!

    Get rid of the entitlist society and let people be it means to be American...innovative!

    I really wish there was more "stimulus" for long term growth that is not temporary. Like putting up a slush fund to give out awards similar to the X-prize for American Innovation. Then add another slush fund for entrepreneurs to take those innovations and commercialize them...for Americans! In that way I do support education spending as long term stimulus as its a macro fundamental, but that needs to be done differently and in another bill. And get rid of the damn standardized tests, and instead find out what people want to do AND are good at. Not everyone needs college. We need to make vocational skills in manufacturing worthwhile again (which is easier said then done, I give you that).

    Ok I need to get off my soap box for now...

  8. #48
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Well, as of right now the dow is at 7404 (As Gerald Celente had seen, 7400 level). We have spent trillions of dollars so far on a stimulus package, a bailout package, and a government spending package (Obama stimulus). At this time they are wanting to spend trillions more on another bailout package, a mortgage rescue package that takes all of our money and spends on people who could never afford their houses in the first place and took loans they shouldn't have. We will be bailing out the loser, and creating a bubble withing the housing bubble. The worst of it is the fact we will, again, be asking/forcing banks to continue the behavior THAT CAUSED THIS PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE! We are going to ask them to make loans to people who can't currently afford it! But I'm sure that wont be a problem, because golly gee, we are going to nationalize the fecking banks.

    Jesus people, I know there is at least a handfull of you out there that realizes this is ridiculous, and the WRONG thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post

    TO EVERYONE ELSE: While I agree things are worse then they really are, I highly recommend you start looking at this from an optimistic and opportunist way. If you fall, get back up! Yes things are going to be very tough, and there are people possibly making it worse, but I believe in America like she is a phoenix. However, a phoenix does have to die to be reborn. So I suggest learning skills that are not only usefull from a job perspective, but personal. Learn how to make box gardens. Learn hydroponics. Learn Solar and Wind Power methods for your home. Learn to be self sufficient. That is what everyone needs to be...
    A better anology is a computer. We have a computer that has been running too many programs that ate away at its resources, and now it is freezing up. It needs to shut down so it can reset and come back refreshed and faster. However, we don't want to restart the computer. We are trying to fix the problems by downloading programs in an attempt to make it run better.Unfortunately, a lot of these programs are viruses. After we've downloaded all these programs we think will help, we finally restart the computer. Once it comes back on, the computer is still slow, maybe even worse than before. The system is now bogged down by useless programs that don't help the system run better, and viruses that are eating away at it. That is how this economic and political situation is going. This system needs to be reset and returned to something sustainable, but God damnit, they will not allow it to happen! They will not allow this system to restore itself without injecting so many toxic programs that the system will scarcely be recognizable once it crashes and resets! I don't want to wake up to a country reborn if its reborn as a God damn socialist state > !

  9. #49
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7~7
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    1,785

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Well, as of right now the dow is at 7404 (As Gerald Celente had seen, 7400 level). We have spent trillions of dollars so far on a stimulus package, a bailout package, and a government spending package (Obama stimulus). At this time they are wanting to spend trillions more on another bailout package, a mortgage rescue package that takes all of our money and spends on people who could never afford their houses in the first place and took loans they shouldn't have. We will be bailing out the loser, and creating a bubble withing the housing bubble. The worst of it is the fact we will, again, be asking/forcing banks to continue the behavior THAT CAUSED THIS PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE! We are going to ask them to make loans to people who can't currently afford it! But I'm sure that wont be a problem, because golly gee, we are going to nationalize the fecking banks.

    Jesus people, I know there is at least a handfull of you out there that realizes this is ridiculous, and the WRONG thing to do.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #50
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    I am reminded of a scene from one of my favorite movies of all time, Gladiator.

    Proximo: He knows to well how to manipulate the mob.
    Maximus: Marcus Aurelius had a dream that was Rome, Proximo. That is not it. That is not it!
    Proximo: Marcus Aurelius is dead, Maximus. We mortals are but shadows and dust. Shadows and dust, Maximus!

Similar Threads

  1. How well is Obama doing with the economy?
    By Giggly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-11-2009, 01:30 PM
  2. Pelosi calls for birth control to stimulate the economy (eugenics?)
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 141
    Last Post: 02-07-2009, 01:20 AM
  3. Citigroup about the economy and gold price
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-04-2008, 10:58 PM
  4. I suspect that I don't understand the economy
    By Eileen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 09-08-2008, 09:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO