User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 55

  1. #11
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Actually, the future is set in stone.

    Suppose that P is a proposition about the future. Can P be true? That is, can a proposition about the future be true? Would it only become true in the future, or is true right now?

    A particular time is a co-ordinate in space-time. Is a proposition about another co-ordinate in space only true when or if you arrive there, or is its truth independent of where you are in space-time? The latter, of course.

    If a proposition about the future can be true right now, then there exists, right now, a set of true propositions about all future events. Moreover, there is nothing anyone can do to change the members of that set, since any change would mean the set contains a false proposition, and therefore, that proposition would never have been a member of the set to begin with. Thus, this set of true propositions is the stone in which the future is set.
    Dude, you did NOT just use Aristotle's sea battle to argue against this ....

    We can fight Risen's irrationality and zeal without that kind of bellow-the-belt garbage. Thanks!

  2. #12
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Dude, you did NOT just use Aristotle's sea battle to argue against this ....

    We can fight Risen's irrationality and zeal without that kind of bellow-the-belt garbage. Thanks!
    I don't believe it was an argument against my "iirationality" (assuming irrational = right when used in refference to myself).

    *Waits patiently for ajblaise to chime in with an off the cuff remark. Yes, that was a prediction to test Reason's theory .*

  3. #13
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    Sometimes I wonder how much more reliable econmists are when compared, for example, to readers of tea leaves.

    Other times I wonder why "what goes up must come down" is something that never seems to sink into our psyches, especially when we're up.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  4. #14
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post

    Other times I wonder why "what goes up must come down" is something that never seems to sink into our psyches, especially when we're up.
    Because their understanding of reality is, for lack of a better word, immature.

  5. #15
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Liquid,

    There is a set of true statements about the future. Whatever the members of that set, we cannot change them (if we changed a member, then it would never have been a member to begin with). No statements that are not members of that set are possibly true, even though they may be consistent with physical law. If they are not members of the set, then they are false, and therefore, impossible. It is not possible for a false statement to be true.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #16
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Thoughts about the economy:

    When people save or pay off debts, they exert a downward pressure on prices. Resources that were being used to produce consumable goods are then made available to invest. Although the amount of money available for banks to lend does not change (the so-called paradox of thrift), the buying power of borrowed money increases. In other words, even though nominal investment does not change, real investment does change i.e. resources are directed away from consumption and toward investment, because the buying power of borrowed money increases.

    One of the resources that is saved, and made available for investment, is labour. That is why an increase in savings creates temporary unemployment--labour is being freed up for entrepreneurs to reallocate.

    Unfortunately, the scale of malinvestment has been so great, the intervention of government so unpredictable, that few entrepreneurs know what to invest in. This is not a confidence problem, but a knowledge problem. A wrong decision made confidently is still a wrong decision.

    The U.S. economy has embarked upon an prolonged and unsustainable growth path, but never before has it wondered so far off-course or for so long. The wrong turns and missed signals cannot be easily retraced, and now few people know how to get the economy back on track. Entrepreneurs and investors are stumped: what does the future have in store for the U.S. economy? How much more will the government intervene? What will happen to the dollar? Etc.

    The savings are not being swiftly reallocated. But there is little the government can do to help except get out of the way. They are primarily responsible for the problem, and would better serve the economy by taking measures to ensure they never do repeat the same error.

    None of this should be happening. As the real estate bubble began inflating, interest rates should have begun rising to reflect the increasing scarcity of resources available to borrow (i.e. savings). The bubble would have popped much sooner as the high interest rates encouraged saving and discouraged borrowing. The economy would not have travelled so far along an unsustainable growth path, and investors would more easily be able to find a way back from the wilderness.

    That is my assessment at the moment.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  7. #17
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Risen,

    The Austrian economists have been predicting the recent problems for years. Check out Mises.org. Most were just surprised that the Fed and Congress were able to keep reinflating the bubble for so many years.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  8. #18
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Risen,

    The Austrian economists have been predicting the recent problems for years. Check out Mises.org. Most were just surprised that the Fed and Congress were able to keep reinflating the bubble for so many years.
    I am not a straight-up Austrian (I am not really an economist at all, but I study it for fun), but von Mises has a lot to say about the nature of boom-and-bust cycles. Worth checking out.

    P.S. reason, I've had breakfast with Lew Rockwell.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #19
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I am not a straight-up Austrian (I am not really an economist at all, but I study it for fun), but von Mises has a lot to say about the nature of boom-and-bust cycles. Worth checking out.

    P.S. reason, I've had breakfast with Lew Rockwell.
    Ludwig von Mises is also very dull, and I have not even attempted to read any of his books. Until a few weeks ago, I had no idea what the Austrian theory of the business cycle was. But after doing some reading, it seems that most Austrians had predicted the crises in advance. In fact, Peter Schiff, who Risen links to above, describes himself as an Austrian economist.

    Last year I took a course in macroeconomics, and over the Christmas period tried to unravel the recent economic problems. I more or less arrived at the Austrian theory of the business cycle by myself, and it was affirming to discover so.

    P.S. I have only a vague idea who Lew Rockwell is. Some libertarian radio talkshow host, right?
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  10. #20
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Ludwig von Mises is also very dull, and I have not even attempted to read any of his books. Until a few weeks ago, I had no idea what the Austrian theory of the business cycle was. But after doing some reading, it seems that most Austrians had predicted the crises in advance. In fact, Peter Schiff, who Risen links to above, describes himself as an Austrian economist.

    Last year I took a course in macroeconomics, and over the Christmas period tried to unravel the recent economic problems. I more or less arrived at the Austrian theory of the business cycle by myself, and it was affirming to discover so.

    P.S. I have only a vague idea who Lew Rockwell is. Some libertarian radio talkshow host, right?

    He's the President and Founder of the Ludwig von Mises Institute in Auburn, AL. One of the preeminent paleolibertarians in the world. I am not a solid fan, but it was an interesting time. I met Ron Paul, Justin Raimondo, and Alexander Cockburn that weekend, too.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

Similar Threads

  1. How well is Obama doing with the economy?
    By Giggly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-11-2009, 01:30 PM
  2. Pelosi calls for birth control to stimulate the economy (eugenics?)
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 141
    Last Post: 02-07-2009, 01:20 AM
  3. Citigroup about the economy and gold price
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-04-2008, 10:58 PM
  4. I suspect that I don't understand the economy
    By Eileen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 09-08-2008, 09:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO