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  1. #71
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm referring to the overall strategy of buying silver (ie: advice).
    I don't see what's so impractical about having a some silver coin around in case the worst really does happen. What do you think people are going to use for money when Federal Reserve notes are no longer worth anything?

    I haven't advised anyone to put their entire life savings into silver.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #72
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Sure, why not. But I don't see what good it will do you, considering there won't be anything to do except struggle to eat and sleep. None of my stuff helps with that.
    I'll worry about that. You just worry about killing yourself, cool?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #73
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I think we'll move into a more barter-like system eventually. I suppose guessing what will be the valuable material commodity would be a plus.

    But life-supporting skills will definitely be at a premium given that much of this society has deemed them unneccesary.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #74
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Don't you understand? Even death would offer more opportunity than life at that point.

    Although now I'm curious... what kind of things?
    It's interesting seeing you two talk, as from one perspective Anja agrees with you - she contends that the boomers stopped buying things as they get old, as in as they approach death, while you say that you would embrace death when there was nothing left you wanted to buy. Both, taken from a single angle, seems like reflections to me. Yet, they are meant to say entirely different things. Anja sees that you don't need "things" in life, while you do. It's a strange duality.

    Eh, this generation, old or young, is the same as all the other generations. Each knows best. Always does.

  5. #75
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't see what's so impractical about having a some silver coin around in case the worst really does happen. What do you think people are going to use for money when Federal Reserve notes are no longer worth anything?
    Assign a probability to this happening...

    I haven't advised anyone to put their entire life savings into silver.
    I actually am an advocate of having gold in a diversified portfolio. A few percent, once networth exceeds 500k or 1mil, depending on global diversity (IIRC, I haven't read much on financial planning in the last decade.) That's on top of owning resources, however, so isn't the whole picture.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's interesting seeing you two talk, as from one perspective Anja agrees with you - she contends that the boomers stopped buying things as they get old, as in as they approach death, while you say that you would embrace death when there was nothing left you wanted to buy. Both, taken from a single angle, seems like reflections to me. Yet, they are meant to say entirely different things. Anja sees that you don't need "things" in life, while you do. It's a strange duality.

    Eh, this generation, old or young, is the same as all the other generations. Each knows best. Always does.
    I noticed the dichotomy also, pt, and was in mind of Edahn's thread about "framing."

    You do know that the older generation is always right, though, don't you? Been there/done that.

    *Takes tongue out of cheek*

    Athenian hits the problem of his malaise squarely on the head and certainly illustrates my point.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #77
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's interesting seeing you two talk, as from one perspective Anja agrees with you - she contends that the boomers stopped buying things as they get old, as in as they approach death, while you say that you would embrace death when there was nothing left you wanted to buy. Both, taken from a single angle, seems like reflections to me. Yet, they are meant to say entirely different things. Anja sees that you don't need "things" in life, while you do. It's a strange duality.

    Eh, this generation, old or young, is the same as all the other generations. Each knows best. Always does.
    Oh, I wasn't talking about buying things. I was talking about having information readily available, time to think about it, and reasonable ways of sharing it with people. And opportunities to do things with it. The world she described would be so insular that there would be nothing but folk knowledge floating around about practical things. There would be no room for ideals, personal goals, a sense of self, or contemplation of meaning... no way to write things, no exposure to new thoughts or ideas, no way to share things that weren't strictly practical... nothing but eating and sleeping and struggling like an animal, except that you endure the knowledge that there's been something higher that you can never experience again. People would likely be illiterate.

  8. #78
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Assign a probability to this happening...
    No one can because no one has enough information.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #79
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Oh, I wasn't talking about buying things. I was talking about having information readily available, time to think about it, and reasonable ways of sharing it with people. The world she described would be so insular that there would be nothing but folk knowledge floating around about practical things. There would be no room for ideals, personal goals, a sense of self, or contemplation of meaning... no way to write things, no exposure to new thoughts or ideas, no way to share things that weren't strictly practical... nothing but eating and sleeping and struggling like an animal, except that you endure the knowledge that there's been something higher that you can never experience again. People would likely be illiterate.
    The fact that so many practical aspects of life are handled for you is what allows you to have so much time to think. The US has so much human capital, even in the event the currency becomes worthless, society will be reestablished relatively quickly.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #80
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Athenian hits the problem of his malaise squarely on the head and certainly illustrates my point.
    Absolutely, but I don't see this as different than you illustrating the older generation thinking they know what's best either

    That's what makes the duality so interesting, when in reality both are mostly just following programming. The young get old in nature because they hold onto the past - adaptive to change, from evolution to social change. And the young are reckless and dramatic, probably meant for finding mates, but emerges as agents of change. The boomers in the 60s are the same as the Ys, Xs, and the Zs in their own age.

    It's not exactly like the older and wiser generation is ready for retirement. Something like 70%+ will not survive their retirement with the funds they have. And the younger generation will never want to "pay back" the capital expenditures the boomers gave them (ie: the cities they live in). It'll be the same when I retire, just as it was true decades ago.

    Anyway, that makes me, getting close to the middle between young and old, the most right. Hah!


    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    nothing but eating and sleeping and struggling like an animal, except that you endure the knowledge that there's been something higher that you can never experience again.
    I know where you are coming from... the funny thing about life, speaking of framing, is that our frame of reference changes very quickly. If things did get this bad, you probably would adapt to do just those things. Just as you are doing it now, to someone many generations from now - who knows what life will be like, but assuming economic growth over the next century, they'll consider our life to be brutish too. Obviously I can't speak for you, as it may be too much change for you, but most people behave in similar ways in these large scale events. Besides the economic contraction (which would devestating, to say the least, as population would have to be reduced to what we can sustain at the new level of production), people would stabilize and band together once it was reached, and we'd start over again... doesn't matter if it's a few+ percent, like this 'depression' will be, or an actual collapse...

    If it happens, we'll both be old and lecturing the next generation about how they take things for granted. That there were hard times, but we are better for having gone through it. Made us appreciate things. That, or we won't be around

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