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  1. #51
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    $1 Trillion is actually small potatoes compared to the debts we've incurred during the past 8 years.
    No, not if by "debts we've incurred" you mean borrowing from the Federal Reserve (that's not the same as selling T-bills, mind you). We have borrowed billions, yes, but only recently did we break the hundred-billion mark... and now we're well into our second trillion in the last six months. The expenditures levied on the Federal Reserve in the past 180 days are unprecedented.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    However I don't think you'll need to worry about $1 suddenly worth only 10 cents. You've got the right principals, but you aren't doing the math. The money won't be devalued to the extent you are suggesting.
    I hope you're correct.

  2. #52
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    I'd be self-reliable but I really don't know where to start.
    Stop reading the news. And talking about it. The world will seem normal again and you'll even be happier.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Stop reading the news. And talking about it. The world will seem normal again and you'll even be happier.
    90% is just fear mongering anyway.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Stop reading the news. And talking about it. The world will seem normal again and you'll even be happier.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    90% is just fear mongering anyway.
    Gatsby, I'll be happy to tell you you're wrong AGAIN later this year like you were when this crisis first started, assuming you were being even half serious. If you were just being sarcastic, then ignore what I've said... save for the being wrong part.

    Wolfy, I can't say 90% is fear mongering, as I don't watch the mainstream media and the media I do watch/listen to usually gets it right. I guarantee, however, that those who stop watching the liberal media will be 90% smarter .

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Now here's something interesting to consider: Here it Comes
    I like these:
    It is increasingly clear that there is absolutely no way that the "big banking system" comprised of firms like Citi, Bank America, JP Morgan and Wells Fargo, along with a handful of others, can make it through this without one trillion or more in additional funds. Yes, it really is that bad.
    It is also increasingly clear that there are literally hundreds of midsize and smaller banks that are perfectly fine. They did not lever up, they did not write a bunch of crap commercial or residential construction paper that cannot be serviced and they most certainly did not drink the KoolAid of securitized synthetic garbage debt. Even in bad economic times traditional banking is a very profitable business - so long as you lend money to people who can pay you back or you have sufficient collateral so that if they default you don't lose your shirt. These sound banks have been frozen out of the "money fountain" and also out of the opportunity to be rewarded for their prudence. The Fed's policies have made it impossible for them to attract capital at any reasonable deposit or CD interest rate and yet their capital ratios are very healthy. These firms should and must stand and yell NOW. There is nothing wrong with the banking system. There is plenty wrong with a handful of big banks who engaged in outrageous and possibly even criminal conduct.
    A nation's standard of living is not based on its ability to borrow in aggregate, but by its ability to produce. Therefore, we cannot borrow our way to prosperity nor can attempts to "spur lending" lead us out of recession. Rather we must produce actual goods and services - not push paper - to grow our way out. Over the last 20 years we have replaced production with false claims of "wealth creation" that are nothing more than the creation of additional credit through intentional mispricing of risk. That scam has now come to an end as the true lack of value has been exposed. All major busts in reasonably-modern time (e.g. back to TulipMania) have come from credit excess.
    Finally, that taxpayer anger and falling tax receipts, plus the government continuing to hand money to people who demonstrably not only made bad bets but engaged in outrageous and perhaps even illegal and fraudulent conduct, yet have returned nothing of what they stole sets up a very real risk of a tax revolt by Americans. It would be ruinous and nearly impossible to control if Americans decided en-masse to simply refuse to pay and to the extent possible went "off grid" through barter and underground transactions, or started modifying W4s to greatly limit withholding and then simply didn't file. Anecdotes related to this occurring are already popping up. I realize this is extremely illegal but at some point the American public is going to reach it's breaking point with the government literally stealing their money to bail out those who robbed them in the first place!
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    No, not if by "debts we've incurred" you mean borrowing from the Federal Reserve (that's not the same as selling T-bills, mind you). We have borrowed billions, yes, but only recently did we break the hundred-billion mark... and now we're well into our second trillion in the last six months. The expenditures levied on the Federal Reserve in the past 180 days are unprecedented.

    I hope you're correct.
    It's not much different in principle. Whenever someone goes into debt money is created in the economy. That is true regardless of whether it's borrowed from the Fed or issued through T-bills.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  7. #57
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It's not much different in principle. Whenever someone goes into debt money is created in the economy. That is true regardless of whether it's borrowed from the Fed or issued through T-bills.
    Good point. Let's everybody go into further debt. Then we'll all be rich.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  8. #58
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Gatsby, I'll be happy to tell you you're wrong AGAIN later this year like you were when this crisis first started, assuming you were being even half serious. If you were just being sarcastic, then ignore what I've said... save for the being wrong part.
    I'm dead serious, because not a single person here has given one piece of practical or historically accurate piece of advice so far. Lots of fear, lots of ideology.

    And you'll have to quantify how I was "wrong", given that I have been a bear for many many years, ever since the real estate bubble happened. I know what happens when bubbles burst.

    I also know that humans that turn off the TV during the same times make better decisions.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm dead serious, because not a single person here has given one piece of practical or historically accurate piece of advice so far. Lots of fear, lots of ideology.

    And you'll have to quantify how I was "wrong", given that I have been a bear for many many years, ever since the real estate bubble happened. I know what happens when bubbles burst.

    I also know that humans that turn off the TV during the same times make better decisions.
    Could you point out the inaccuracy in my post regarding the price of silver?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #60
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Could you point out the inaccuracy in post regarding the price of silver?
    I'm referring to the overall strategy of buying silver (ie: advice).

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