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  1. #111
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I was awe struck by the audacity of the government to sit up there and start demanding that companies have spending caps.
    I'm confused by this comment, Risen.

    If someone comes to me begging for help, shouldn't I have the option of saying, "If I'm going to help you, you'll have to do it my way?"

    Say more, Pls.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #112
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I'm confused by this comment, Risen.

    If someone comes to me begging for help, shouldn't I have the option of saying, "If I'm going to help you, you'll have to do it my way?"

    Say more, Pls.

    Capping the pay so low creates a dearth of qualified candidates. You're an executive, and you have skill, why go to the bank where all you'll make is 500k, even if you do a masterful job? Better to go to the other company that gives you a multi million dollar deal laden with performance clauses and stock options.



  3. #113
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I understand that, Jock, but I thought that Risen was complaining about the government directing the people it gave money to. They may be making an unwise choice but it seems to me that they have to right to tell people what to do with their (our) money.

    Here's what I don't get about the direction our country has taken now for so many years :

    Why are so many counter-intuitive decisions being made? We seem determined in all life areas to choose the least life-supporting decisions. We common folk can see the mistakes which are being made but those leading us don't seem to be influenced by us, or by the common sense of self-preservation.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I understand that, Jock, but I thought that Risen was complaining about the government directing the people it gave money to. They may be making an unwise choice but it seems to me that they have to right to tell people what to do with their (our) money.

    Here's what I don't get about the direction our country has taken now for so many years :

    Why are so many counter-intuitive decisions being made? We seem determined in all life areas to choose the least life-supporting decisions. We common folk can see the mistakes which are being made but those leading us don't seem to be influenced by us, or by the common sense of self-preservation.
    Because common sense is DEAD. It's six feet under a pile of fanciful feel good bull shit. It's dying in the general public, and long since decayed into nothing in the halls of Washington where our politicians are so disconnected from reality they should be admitted into the mental ward.

    As for why government dictating the wages of executives, It's like Jock said. The government coming in and telling banks and companies how much they may earn is completely overstepping their bounds. The government coming in and NATIONALIZING/bailing out banks and companies is, again, completely overstepping their bounds. Since this situation involves tax payer/borrowed/printed money being used by the government to bail them out and take part ownership, we unfortunately have a say in how they do things. WELCOME TO NATIONAL SOCIALISM!!! (and no, it's not the Nazi's national socialism...)

    I somewhat agree that their pay should be limited and they should have all manner of restrictions placed on them by government for one particular reason; if the government keeps on slapping the banks/businesses that take our bailout money this way, then I guarantee all the others will think twice about asking the government for a bailout in fear of having their businesses crapped on by Uncle Sam. In all seriousness, if the government can keep going on the path they're on with limiting executive pay, then it'll be worth it if it proves a strong deterrent for all others who may be foolish enough to ask for bailout money. It could be one of the few forces that actually makes people stop sucking the government tit, and convinces them to solve problems on their own, the right way (not asking for handouts and nationalizing). This country is never going to get anywhere by bailing everyone and their mother out. Things must be allowed to fail so the stronger will prevail and replace them. That's how a capitalist system works and will always work. A little bit of pain now is much better than the great swath of pain that may await us for all this belligerent socialistic spending.

  5. #115
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    I'm sort of hoping people in positions of power realize the banks are beyond salvage and are using these tactics in order to allow them to crumble apart at a manageable pace.

    Call it optimism?
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  6. #116
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Capping the pay so low creates a dearth of qualified candidates. You're an executive, and you have skill, why go to the bank where all you'll make is 500k, even if you do a masterful job? Better to go to the other company that gives you a multi million dollar deal laden with performance clauses and stock options.
    isnt that supposedly what happened in the first place, the nations best and brightest signed on to make big money?

    Perhaps some humble and cautious talent is exactly waht hte situation needs right now. I dont know how many of you have lived in nyc before, but these fuckers should be lucky not to be thrown in jail for fraud or reduced to washing cars. Defending the bankers against half million salaries is like the poor voting republican.

  7. #117
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    I'm making a prediction that GE will be bailed out, or ask for a bailout in the near future (though I said it already...).

  8. #118
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm sort of hoping people in positions of power realize the banks are beyond salvage and are using these tactics in order to allow them to crumble apart at a manageable pace.

    Call it optimism?
    I'd rather see this too. The local to middle level banks are doing just fine. Take the assets the big banks have, and auction them off to the other banks. Yes there will be losses, yes credit will still be tight, but we won't be bankrupting the government [and ourselves] as badly. I'd like to see them taken apart piece by piece.



  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    ...like the poor voting republican.
    I would have said "...like the poor voting for either wing of our one-party system."

  10. #120
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Well. I'm still maintaining that the system will no longer exist as we've known it within a year.

    So if the rest of you do as my emergency management husband is doing and buy a thousand dollar generator we can get together by computer and have a burial service.

    I think it's gonna get brutal when I see him spending that kind of money.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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