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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    If Obama wants to get the Republicans on his side, he's going to have to step on some Democratic toes. I hope he will do it, but his record makes me doubt it.
    Yea, well Obama's promises for transparency, oversight, and no lobbyists in his administration are falling flat on their face. He has gained THREE lobbyists so far, and any transparency and oversight in his plans so far are only provided through appointments by him. In my opinion, that is the same as Bush's direction.

  2. #32
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    *sigh*

  3. #33
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    This is the largest spending (NOT stimulus) bill ever, and guess what, no republicans voted for it, plus 11 democrats voted against it.
    Welcome to politics

    We don't agree over the effectiveness, but the political side of it is pretty obvious on both sides. This is just as much grandstanding by the republicans as it is Obama forcing things through. This could even be a reaction to Obama's move to dismantle a lot of what Bush did. Hard to tell how much is just pragmatic (We are so responsible. Starting now.), and how much is a signal.

    The problem with the pendulum is that it swings too far each way! Now the democrats have too much power... and that's going to cause corruption.

  4. #34
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The problem with the pendulum is that it swings too far each way!

  5. #35
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    OH, I forgot... For those i didn't send a message to, I had mentioned the inclusion of $600 million in the SPENDING bill for "UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE". Below is the section from the COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS preliminary assessment of the spending bill before it got voted on. This was in the bill, but after it was noted on the air, the bill was changed and the language of "universal health care" within it was eliminated. However, NONE of the appropriations have changed, meaning that it is still in the bill even though they are no longer referring to it as preparing for universal health care. This (ptgatsby) is how they operate in Washington to get their agendas through.

    COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
    DAVE OBEY (D-WI), CHAIRMAN
    For Immediate Release
    Thursday, January 15, 2009
    Contact: Kirstin Brost, 202-225-2771
    SUMMARY: AMERICAN RECOVERY AND REINVESTMENT
    Action and Action Now!

    ................................

    LOWER HEALTHCARE COSTS
    To save not only jobs, but money and lives, we will update and computerize our healthcare system to cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help reduce healthcare costs by billions of dollars each year.

    Health Information Technology: $20 billion to jumpstart efforts to computerize health records to cut costs and reduce medical errors.

    Prevention and Wellness Fund: $3 billion to fight preventable chronic diseases, the leading cause of deaths in the U.S., and infectious diseases. Preventing disease rather than treating illnesses is the most effective way to reduce healthcare costs. This includes hospital infection prevention, Preventive Health and Health Services Block Grants for state and local public health departments, immunization programs, and evidence-based disease prevention.

    Healthcare Effectiveness Research: $1.1 billion for Healthcare Research and Quality programs to compare the effectiveness of different medical treatments funded by Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP. Finding out what works best and educating patients and doctors will improve treatment and save taxpayers money.

    Community Health Centers: $1.5 billion, including $500 million to increase the number of uninsured Americans who receive quality healthcare and $1 billion to renovate clinics and make health information technology improvements. More than 400 applications submitted earlier this year for new or expanded CHC sites remain unfunded.

    Training Primary Care Providers: $600 million to address shortages and prepare our country for universal healthcare by training primary healthcare providers including doctors, dentists, and nurses as well as helping pay medical school expenses for students who agree to practice in underserved communities through the National Health Service Corps.

    Indian Health Service Facilities: $550 million to modernize aging hospitals and health clinics and make healthcare technology upgrades to improve healthcare for underserved rural populations.

  6. #36
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    This (ptgatsby) is how they operate in Washington to get their agendas through.
    You mean, they pass the measures that they think they should? Truly horrible.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    You mean, they pass the measures that they think they should? Truly horrible.
    They do it in ways that are concealed, if there is any pressure from their constituents because they are doing something that would be controversial. That is called DISHONEST. I hope that's not a new word for people...

  8. #38
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    On top of that, I do believe this is off topic good sir.
    Continued from: Pelosi calls for birth control to stimulate the conomy (eugenics?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Precisely why I asked, because it almost seemed as if you were trying to bring it up so I'd say "Well of course Obama hasn't raised my taxes since 8 days ago, because hes only been in office for 8 freaking days!" A short time in office for sure, but that still hasn't stopped him from raking up over $800 billion in debt for us. See how free we are in a few years when our economy is further in shambles, or generations down the lines when they'll be paying obscene taxes in order to pay off this spending.
    Well for one thing, it's a one-time bill, that will be spent over 3 years, not all at once. For a second thing, it's nothing compared to the debt the Bush administration incurred. And for a third thing, Government debt is not a bad thing. This is how government bonds are issued.
    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    As for the democrat congress and taxes, I don't know if they have passed any new taxes considering they were in office with Bush and more republicans than we have in this new administration, plus my own state has somehow resisted any major tax increases over the past year (though I believe they might have raised the sales tax), perhaps due to the quasi republican governator and the resistance of the general public to paying any new taxes. Not upping taxes doesn't mean they have stopped increasing their spending (state or federal) unfortunately.
    California? Well, at least now I understand your hostility to the proposition.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  9. #39
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    They do it in ways that are concealed, if there is any pressure from their constituents because they are doing something that would be controversial. That is called DISHONEST. I hope that's not a new word for people...
    Concealed? You mean, like when he said it before he became president and then posted the entire thing on a public website...?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Concealed? You mean, like when he said it before he became president and then posted the entire thing on a public website...?
    Why grasp at straws man? If the politicians want to get an agenda passed, they need to be open about it because they are handling the public's business, not their own. If they want things like universal health care, then fine, let them put it through, but they cannot and should not do it by means that HIDE what they are doing in places they SHOULD NOT be in, all for the purpose of avoiding a possible backlash from the very same people they are supposed to be representing! That's exactly what the problem is in government. Hell, about 3 weeks ago they tried to pass an illegal fee increase here in CA as a way to avoid having to vote on taxes which the general public would not support. They tried to sneak it in under the cover of darkness (the standard procedure for dirt bag politicians), but thankfully there were enough people performing their civic duty of monitoring what the government is doing, and called out the illegal fee increase/tax hike. This same sort of situation is repeated over and over again through the tiers of government, and it is only through the apathy and ignorance of the public that it continues. If you seriously want to argue that methods such as this are a good way to govern, then go ahead and own it ptgatsby. That's your choice...

    Aside from that, mark my words. This is not nearly the last of bailouts and spending bills from the printing presses. Within the next couple months they will spend at least another 700 billion on the banks again. In fact, I believe Obama SAID that he will have to spend trillions more on the banks and creating an agency (the "Bad Bank") to buy up toxic assets and help with bailouts.

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