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  1. #21
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    And here's where we would fall into a debate regarding positive and negative rights.
    Debate? No. Pointless "mines bigger than yours" competitions with no real aim towards a resolution. I would discuss the matter willingly but I'd avoid "debates" given a choice.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #22
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    So he had the money to pay his electric bill, he just didn't. This leads me to believe he wasn't mentally fit to be living alone.

    What frustrates me about this is that everyone keeps looking to the government for a solution. He obviously has family since they were interviewed for this article. Where were they when he needed help? Maybe they expected government to take care of him.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #24
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    the sad truth is that the city and power company were no more responsible for keeping this man warm than his neighbors and friends, if he had any

  5. #25
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Where were they when he needed help? Maybe they expected government to take care of him.
    They had no obligation to help him. No more than society did. I'm sure the mere presence of government is to blame, however, and this would never happen if we weren't such a nanny state.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    They had no obligation to help him. No more than society did. I'm sure the mere presence of government is to blame, however, and this would never happen if we weren't such a nanny state.
    I would never expect to have a system where something like this couldn't happen. It's a tragedy, but life is full of tragedy and we'll never be able to rid the world of it all.

    I would rather see families assume more responsibility for seniors rather than making them wards of the state.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #27
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's a tragedy, but life is full of tragedy and we'll never be able to rid the world of it all.
    Crime happens, and happens all over, so why have law?

    But you are correct, I remembered an old conversation incorrectly... I can't remember who it was with now, so I can't find the reference to without governments, people would step in. I just find this particular libertarian viewpoint circular. The stance that bad things happen and we shouldn't do anything (as the lesser evil) is one I disagree with, but I understand the different viewpoint. The "without government interference everything would be roses" bugs me.

  8. #28
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    money > life


  9. #29
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Crime happens, and happens all over, so why have law?

    But you are correct, I remembered an old conversation incorrectly... I can't remember who it was with now, so I can't find the reference to without governments, people would step in. I just find this particular libertarian viewpoint circular. The stance that bad things happen and we shouldn't do anything (as the lesser evil) is one I disagree with, but I understand the different viewpoint. The "without government interference everything would be roses" bugs me.
    Law should be about protecting negative rights (it's illegal for someone to kill you), not enforcing positive rights ("free" electricity).

    I hold no illusions that everything would be perfect without government interference. On the contrary, I get annoyed when people think we can eventually pass enough laws where things like this won't happen. Very few people starve or freeze to death in this country because we're economically prosperous, not because the government stops it from happening.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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