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  1. #71
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    There is no "FAMILY" planning where the aim of such policies is to distribute contraception to people who are just having sex, and are not actually in any sort of family structure. If people were in a family structure (married), then I doubt they wouldn't be able to afford contraception, and I'm sure they'd be prepared to care for any children they make anyway. That's the entire point that you are missing. Having children out of wedlock is something that is prevalent in poorer communities. Upper class communities don't have that problem to nearly the same degree. I never mentioned race, but unfortunately, the greatest problems lye with the poorer predominantly black and Hispanic communities. It is what it is. I also never said that Pelosi was a eugenicist (she could be for all I know). I only mentioned it in the header as a point brought up in some of the headlines, Didums is the one who went off supporting eugenics.
    Wow, that's a whole lot of FAIL in one paragraph. Impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Birth control is a GOOD THING - and it *is* family planning. I use birth control so that I can plan *not to have a family* at this point in my life (because I know that I do not presently have enough money or emotional resources to support a child). Once the baby shows up, it's insta-family.
    .... There is nothing wrong with education and availability.
    100% agreed.
    -end of thread-

  2. #72
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Sorry, misspoke. The question was more directed at reason.

    So we should increase the population to meet the needs of the increasing population?
    I'd rather see entitlement programs reduced/restructured/eliminated. They are not economically viable in the long term because they require a growing population.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Wow, that's a whole lot of FAIL in one paragraph. Impressive.


    100% agreed.
    Fail as in I'm wrong about the birth rates of poor communities, or fail as in you just don't like what I'm saying? If it is the former, I'd suggest you actually bring up some figures.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Fail as in I'm wrong about the birth rates of poor communities, or fail as in you just don't like what I'm saying? If it is the former, I'd suggest you actually bring up some figures.
    I don't think anyone would contest your claim that what you call a problem--children out of wedlock--is more prevalent in poor communities. What I think people might contest is that you SAY this and seem to OPPOSE education and increased availability of birth control options.

    You seem to not consider single mothers and their children to be "families," though, and that's a little weird.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #75
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    Could the serial killers regain some of their value if they happened to be killing off people who are useless? If we were to rid our population of all of the "unwanted" people, perhaps we should start planning some retirement home "accidents"... since they no longer contribute to the economy... what a drain on health care and a waste of resources, right? Or what about all of the various sociopaths... even if they aren't violent, they tend not to contribute to society in any way... perhaps we could sell their organs to some other country and then they would finally be worth something. (sarcasm, btw- since some of my previous posts have been taken literally.)

    I'm am for birth control, mostly because I think people are stupid and can't control their impulses long enough to think about the consequences, but is it really going to make that much of a difference...? now, this is where quite a few of you are going to get upset... Given the various "low income" schools I'm acquainted with, I do not think that adding a child to the picture would end the educational aspirations for most of those teenagers.. because most of them could care less about school in the first place. Sure, a child would not help, but to blame a pregnancy for destroying their futures... please. When the average in an algebra class is 30% because students are turning in their tests blank, not doing their homework, showing up to class two days a week, giving the teacher false phone numbers in the hopes that their parents can't be reached (when they are reached, it's not like much of a difference is made, anyway).. saying things in class like "I don't need math or school, I can just sell drugs"... the problem lies with those kids and the values and self discipline they lack (let's not deviate into a debate over the origins of that apathy). Considering that the majority can't control themselves for the first 10 minutes of class, I don't know how you expect them to wait long enough to put a condom on.. or to remember to take the pill every morning. Parent or not, nearly all of those kids have no where to go after high school.

    Ugh... another thing...
    Current "solution" for one of those schools: Lower the passing grade to 60%. Real move for improvement, eh?
    [B]Ti=Ne>Ni>Fe>Te=Fi>Si>Se

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  6. #76
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laintpe View Post
    Could the serial killers regain some of their value if they happened to be killing off people who are useless?
    It rather depends on how much of these instincts are ingrained in us. That is, there is nothing wrong with killing, in most people views... just so long as it isn't "one of us". Happens across tribes, borders, classes, religions, societies, race and any other arbitrary line that triggers the response.

    (Somewhat unrelated, but this story kind of leads into that. Won't make as much sense if you don't know the site's purpose, but... there it is.)

  7. #77
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laintpe View Post
    now, this is where quite a few of you are going to get upset... Given the various "low income" schools I'm acquainted with, I do not think that adding a child to the picture would end the educational aspirations for most of those teenagers.. because most of them could care less about school in the first place. Sure, a child would not help, but to blame a pregnancy for destroying their futures... please. When the average in an algebra class is 30% because students are turning in their tests blank, not doing their homework, showing up to class two days a week, giving the teacher false phone numbers in the hopes that their parents can't be reached (when they are reached, it's not like much of a difference is made, anyway).. saying things in class like "I don't need math or school, I can just sell drugs"... the problem lies with those kids and the values and self discipline they lack (let's not deviate into a debate over the origins of that apathy). Considering that the majority can't control themselves for the first 10 minutes of class, I don't know how you expect them to wait long enough to put a condom on.. or to remember to take the pill every morning. Parent or not, nearly all of those kids have no where to go after high school.
    Are you a high school teacher at a low income school? Your complaints sound familiar. I have said and thought the same things. But you can't spend any amount of meaningful time at a low income high school and not ALSO know that these kids did not just appear in a vacuum.

    It's a spiraling problem. Much of the time, in my experience, those kids of which you speak are the product of teen pregnancies themselves. Their parents are not adults themselves in the formative years where the most important learning happens. Frequently, their parents do not have high school diplomas themselves (due to a variety of things including pregnancies), so they don't have many people in their lives to look at and see that education = greater opportunities for success. There's SO MUCH going on here. Birth control on its own is NOT the only solution, for sure.

    I taught at a school that had a phenomenal girl's basketball team with a fabulous and caring coach. The coach helped four girls get athletic scholarships to college. After their first semester of college, three of those girls were pregnant, lost their athletic scholarships, and dropped out. Now - there seems to be a certain element of self-sabatoge present there. But it is definitely the case that those girls' pregnancies halted their education and progress.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #78
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'd rather see entitlement programs reduced/restructured/eliminated. They are not economically viable in the long term because they require a growing population.
    Yeah. I agree.

    It also has a tendency to promote a sense of entitlement, which, regardless of whether or not it's true, is never a good thing.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  9. #79
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Fail as in I'm wrong about the birth rates of poor communities, or fail as in you just don't like what I'm saying? If it is the former, I'd suggest you actually bring up some figures.
    Your false dichotomies are full of fail, too. You can't take a true statement and piggyback a whole load of BS on top. Most people have the ability to smell it.

    I'm not going to try to convince you though, it's a waste of time.
    -end of thread-

  10. #80
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Your false dichotomies are full of fail, too. You can't take a true statement and piggyback a whole load of BS on top. Most people have the ability to smell it.

    I'm not going to try to convince you though, it's a waste of time.
    +1

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