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  1. #61
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Yea, and it was in one of the several articles I posted, hence why I posted multiple articles in the first place, to counterbalance at least a little bit the more extreme viewpoints. I included it in the title because it was part of some of the headlines.
    Allow me to peer edit then:

    Pelosi calls for birth control to stimulate the economy. (Eugenics? Or responsible growth?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    You answered your own question.
    Humor me.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Being subject to more taxes leaves one less monetary freedom. And I've also asked how much your taxes have risen since 738 days ago, when the Democrats assumed their majority presence in Congress.
    Precisely why I asked, because it almost seemed as if you were trying to bring it up so I'd say "Well of course Obama hasn't raised my taxes since 8 days ago, because hes only been in office for 8 freaking days!" A short time in office for sure, but that still hasn't stopped him from raking up over $800 billion in debt for us. See how free we are in a few years when our economy is further in shambles, or generations down the line when they'll be paying obscene taxes in order to pay off this spending spree. As for the democrat congress and taxes, I don't know if they have passed any new taxes considering they were in office with Bush and more republicans than we have in this new administration, plus my own state has somehow resisted any major tax increases over the past year (though I believe they might have raised the sales tax), perhaps due to the quasi republican governator and the resistance of the general public to paying any new taxes. Not upping taxes doesn't mean they have stopped increasing their spending (state or federal) unfortunately. On top of that, I do believe this is slightly off topic good sir.

  3. #63
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    People are assets, not costs. Only in a centrally planned economy are people seen as costs.

    Ordinarily, people produce more than they consume (i.e. they are investments). Although it may be counter-intuitive, an increasing population actually promotes economic prosperity, because people are a good investment--the best investment--that an economy can make. Nothing increases our future ability to consume more than the inventive and varied uses of ourselves.

    When an economy is centrally planned, human capital is put to inefficient uses. When humans become a drain on resources controlled by bereaucrats, they are cast into gulags, allowed no more than one child, or whatever else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Dude, people cost money and resources, regardless of who's in charge. It may seem cold to put it that way, but it's the truth...
    Don't worry Brendan, my worst favourite NF, Lee's comments are nothing more than sophism.

    Lee is right when he seems to suggests population growth can be good. As population growth leads to a bigger market which leads to more demand for the economic opportunities. The problem with his casuistry is that he conveniently left out half the story; which was most likely intentional, being more a caricature of his political propensity rather than because of ignorance as he is clearly not stupid.

    Let me explain everyone; his statement "People are assets, not costs", is clearly not always true thus a sophism. For example, I personally fail to comprehend how if one is a serial killer who got sentenced to life in prison, like Ed Gein, is in anyway an asset to the economy; but maybe I am just too stupid to know?





    Lee also says "Only in a centrally planned economy are people seen as costs"; this is exceptionally misleading at best and at worst propaganda. If a country happens to be very rich, like the US, it should therefore have a society that is able to support a population increase, unless it is ridiculously large, but this is obviously not true for every country in the world. For example, can countries like Guinea-Bissau really afford to support a population growth at all, when it is such a poor county having a hell of a lot of problems already with nearly half of the country being illiterate, not having access to safe water, and over two-thirds living below the poverty line; personally I highly doubt it?

    I guess you all have guessed what the most backward economies, like Guinea-Bissau, all have in common amongst themselves other than being bankrupt and horrible places to try to survival in; haven't you? The answer is they tend to have the highest birth rate and population growth rates; the birth rate and population growth rate for Guinea-Bissau is twice that of the US despite a shambolic access to medicines.

    Economically speaking, a person who is not medically afflicted or a malefactor is only a benefit (by that I mean not a burden) to society if they can support themselves or society can support them.





    Finally, I would like to say the statement, "When an economy is centrally planned, human capital is put to inefficient uses...", is hilarious if not incredible paradoxical given the nature and reason for the current predicament of the world economy.

    Countries where population increase is the biggest burden on society are the poorest countries in the world, which generally are far from being centrally planned economies, unless one deems IMF structural reform programs like in Guinea-Bissau to be by central planners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    The US is in for a heap of trouble because the baby boomers didn't have enough children. Entitlement programs like social security require a growing population because they're basically Ponzi schemes.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #65
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    but maybe I am just too stupid to know?
    Clearly. People are assets, not costs (qualification: EXCEPT SERIAL KILLERS).



    Common sense would not go amiss. What I stated was correct. Only in centrally planned (i.e. unfree) economies are people typically seen as a burden on society.

    No country in the history of the world has ever become wealthy without an increasing population. People are the ultimate resource, to use Julian Simon's phrase. Over-population is not a function of population, but of economic organisation. People can be either put to productive uses, and benefit society, or not, in which case they are typically sent to gulags or prevented from being born.

    In fact, try reading Julian Simon's The Ultimate Resource. But anyway, I need to go now, which is just as well, since your insufferably pompous tone is making me feel dismissive/nauseous.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #66
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Clearly. People are assets, not costs
    People are neither. They cannot be owned and they consume in direct proportion to what they produce. Fundamental to economics are that people are satisfying needs - the only difference between making sawdust and a good of value is if it feeds our needs. People would have their own classification.

  7. #67
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The US is in for a heap of trouble because the baby boomers didn't have enough children. Entitlement programs like social security require a growing population because they're basically Ponzi schemes.
    So we should expand the bureaucracy to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy? Why don't we just fix programs like that? I seem to recall President Bush talking about Social Security a while back.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Where did I say anything about expanding bureaucracy?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #69
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Where did I say anything about expanding bureaucracy?
    Sorry, misspoke. The question was more directed at reason.

    So we should increase the population to meet the needs of the increasing population?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    There is no "FAMILY" planning where the aim of such policies is to distribute contraception to people who are just having sex, and are not actually in any sort of family structure. If people were in a family structure (married), then I doubt they wouldn't be able to afford contraception, and I'm sure they'd be prepared to care for any children they make anyway. That's the entire point that you are missing. Having children out of wedlock is something that is prevalent in poorer communities. Upper class communities don't have that problem to nearly the same degree. I never mentioned race, but unfortunately, the greatest problems lye with the poorer predominantly black and Hispanic communities. It is what it is.
    The point that I am missing is why you apparently find the idea of educating women in poverty and making birth control available OFFENSIVE. Birth control is a GOOD THING - and it *is* family planning. I use birth control so that I can plan *not to have a family* at this point in my life (because I know that I do not presently have enough money or emotional resources to support a child). Once the baby shows up, it's insta-family.

    I spent the first four years of my career teaching kids in poverty, and so many of the young women got pregnant and got STUCK. The whole problem isn't the lack of education or available birth control, but part of it is. Why not attempt to solve what we can solve? There is nothing wrong with education and availability.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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