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  1. #91
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Play nicely, guys.
    Take no prisoners, Geoff!
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  2. #92
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    People are neither. They cannot be owned and they consume in direct proportion to what they produce. Fundamental to economics are that people are satisfying needs - the only difference between making sawdust and a good of value is if it feeds our needs. People would have their own classification.
    People cannot be owned? Keep thinking about that and then tell me how you're wrong (and I do not mean slavery). Then think about how people tend not to consume in direct proportion to production. You're a smart guy, so you can figure it out.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #93
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    People cannot be owned? Keep thinking about that and then tell me how you're wrong (and I do not mean slavery). Then think about how people tend not to consume in direct proportion to production. You're a smart guy, so you can figure it out.
    People is an aggregate term, as is the lockstep of consumption and production. Reinvestment is still for consumption.

  4. #94
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laintpe View Post
    saying things in class like "I don't need math or school, I can just sell drugs"...
    Wow, kids these days are bunch of goddamn retards.

    You cannot become a successful drug dealer if you can't count. Not with all the grams, ounces, and kilos that come into equation. Not to mention constant price fluctuation because there was a major raid by the DEA, etc.

    And as soon as you upgrade from being a small time dealer selling mostly to friends, you'll have get involved in money laundering and if you're weak on math, you're shit out of luck.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    825 billion dollars is a bit ridiculous for contraceptives and family planning.. maybe 25 billion tops would be more rational (though I don't know how much that really amounts to, but I do know that nearly 1 trillion dollars is just stupid).

    However, I do support the concept, it is crucial for the future of our species on this planet to start reducing population growth.
    Agreed

    People that have more children than normal, seem to be poor. Many of them receive financial assistance from the government.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Not having sex is the surest way not to make babies, is it not?
    1 in 4 teen girls has at least one STD - Kids and parenting- msnbc.com

    The problem is, teenagers have sex anyway. Whether you tell them to be abstinent or not. Since no one teaches safe sex, they end up engaging in risky sex. Thus, a new rise in venereal disease among teenagers. I find it interesting the number of STDs went up, after the abstinence policy was put into place for years.

  7. #97
    Summer laintpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Wow, kids these days are bunch of goddamn retards.

    You cannot become a successful drug dealer if you can't count. Not with all the grams, ounces, and kilos that come into equation. Not to mention constant price fluctuation because there was a major raid by the DEA, etc.

    And as soon as you upgrade from being a small time dealer selling mostly to friends, you'll have get involved in money laundering and if you're weak on math, you're shit out of luck.
    [B]Ti=Ne>Ni>Fe>Te=Fi>Si>Se

    LII

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap
    Quote Originally Posted by laintpe
    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap
    Ideally I'll be the woman

  8. #98
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Why does this seem bad to you? Not having sex is the surest way not to make babies, is it not? Did it at least work well in your community? The only part I'd find to be counterproductive is if they didn't at least cover the topic of contraception. However, advocating abstinence to young impressionable minds would be in some conflict when delivering the message of "We ask you not to have sex, BUT IF YOU DO, make sure you use a condom." It's a slightly mixed message as you tell kids to just not have sex, but then go and tell them what to do if they do have sex :/. Either way, I'd rather kids know what they need to about safe sex. I honestly don't see how this abstinence week would be any worse than having "Sex Ed Day" as they do in CA schools (or at least the San Diego school district).
    Feel free to re-read my post carefully. We don't cover contraceptives. In North Carolina, sex education is a joke. It is stupid and dangerous to withhold information from these kids who are going to have sex anyway.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  9. #99
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    When I originally read this thread, I read a reasonable number of comments a did not agree with, the thing that made me post in this thread is what I see as the black propaganda of this post. That post evoked Orwellian illusions that were used by countries like the US during the cold war. In George Orwell's marvellous book, Nineteen Eighty-Four, he says we are all to live under the threat and illusion of endless war, to justify increased state control and social control, while pursuing the goal of global supremacy. Washington DC is now transformed into the 'chief city of Airstrip One'. The ever so evil Goldstein, as Orwell named him, was the 'enemy', every problem possible in the world is blamed on the 'enemy' , who could well have been Vladimir Lenin, and pretty much any 'Communist leader' after him, the 'axis of evil'. Big Brother seems to have morphed into Lee and he never fails a chance to mention it.

    You see everyone, I can tolerate ignorance of politics but I can not and will not tolerate blatant misinformation of that post, without calling his bluff. He is one of the most ingenious members of this forum, but instead of using it to educate people to a better understanding by being pragmatic at the points at hand, he more often or not blatantly tries to manipulate debates into a pantomime to suit his political dogma.

    There is reason why his overt Orwellian lexicon and misinformation really annoys me, it is because I live in a country that to this day still uses the same logic to help justify the most barbaric Post-World War Two foreign policy know to man along side the US. Just like Lee, pretty much every Post-World War Two British and American leaders have used the same logic to justify the unjustifiable of their political opinions.


    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    People are assets, not costs (qualification: EXCEPT SERIAL KILLERS).
    If Ed Gein why not a rapist in Antoni Imiela, or a armed robber turned kidnapper like Charles Bronson, who is deemed the most violent prisoner in Britain despite killing not one person?

    Also, clearly it contradicts your earlier statement that "only in a centrally planned economy are people seen as costs", as I don't know about anyone else but I am not cognizant about Ed Gein having been incarcerated in a centrally planned economy; is anyone else?


    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    What I stated was correct. Only in centrally planned (i.e. unfree) economies are people typically seen as a burden on society.
    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    When an economy is centrally planned, human capital is put to inefficient uses. When humans become a drain on resources controlled by bereaucrats, they are cast into gulags, allowed no more than one child, or whatever else.


    No, it is not; I have already explained why this is wrong in my view. But, I will repeat myself, countries where population increase is the biggest burden on society are the poorest countries in the world, which generally are far from being centrally planned economies, unless one deems IMF or the World Bank structural reform programs to be by central planners. They both give money with the aim to enrich capitalism in failed states where population growth is still 'typically' considered a burden.

    To suggest in only planned economies see people as a burden on society is a beguiled pretension, as the only planned economies that have ever done so are India, China, and Iran; so I make that the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, Laos, and Vietnam who have never had a population control with the ambition being to decrees the population in spite of being largely planned economies one time or another.

    Your comments on the Gulags are distorted in history; a fallacy at best. When the Joseph Stalin came to power he launched a command economy replacing the New Economic Policy that had been introduced under Vladimir Lenin. The Soviet Union leaders did send people to the Gulags as you correctly point out, but they did not do so to depopulate the USSR because they could not manage the economy like you seem to imply, rather they did so to repress the population in order to keep themselves in total control; which is something of a entire different nature to what you seem to have been suggesting.

    By the way, the USSR was pretty much always fervid about increasing its population. For example, under Joseph Stalin it took over many countries after World War Two, awarded medals and money to woman who gave birth to five or more children, and banned abortion in an attempt to encourage women to have larger families (Russia was in fact the first country to legalise abortion completely for any reason).

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    No country in the history of the world has ever become wealthy without an increasing population.
    I don't actually disagree with that statement.

    To quote myself, "Economically speaking, a person who is not medically afflicted or a malefactor is only a benefit (by that I mean not a burden) to society if they can support themselves or society can support them".
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post

    Your comments on the Gulags are distorted in history; a fallacy at best. When the Joseph Stalin came to power he launched a command economy replacing the New Economic Policy that had been introduced under Vladimir Lenin. The Soviet Union leaders did send people to the Gulags as you correctly point out, but they did not do so to depopulate the USSR because they could not manage the economy like you seem to imply, rather they did so to repress the population in order to keep themselves in total control; which is something of a entire different nature to what you seem to have been suggesting.

    By the way, the USSR was pretty much always fervid about increasing its population. For example, under Joseph Stalin it took over many countries after World War Two, awarded medals and money to woman who gave birth to five or more children, and banned abortion in an attempt to encourage women to have larger families (Russia was in fact the first country to legalise abortion completely for any reason).

    Just to comment on this part, any plans Russia had on suppressing the population growth is certainly backfiring on them. Their population growth is going into the negative, something I've heard the leaders over there are quite concerned about.

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