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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    With murder and manslaughter, intent to cause harm is punished. With hate crimes, a belief is punished. It's really no different than giving a murderer a longer sentence because he's a Christian or an atheist.
    Yes, you're right. However hate crimes are generally more stupid. Murder can be more sophisticated. Maybe you did it because it was a matter of national security. Maybe you murdered someone because you wanted money. Maybe it was revenge for something.

    If it's a hate crime you're just flagrantly stupid. No one can support that. That is why special punishment is warranted for wasting efforts for such a stupid reason. If you killed me just because you hated the way I look, I would hope that you would be assassinated ASAP (you should not be permitted to walk amongst society). You should die, you are poison (rhetorically speaking of course).

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    If it's a hate crime you're just flagrantly stupid. No one can support that. That is why special punishment is warranted for wasting efforts for such a stupid reason. If you killed me just because you hated the way you look, I would hope that you would be assassinated ASAP (you should not be permitted to walk amongst society). You should die, you are poison (rhetorically speaking of course).
    Yes.

    Hate crimes are intent to do harm. Just like murder. It's fine to dislike people, but for someone to go out of their way to directly affect another person's life in a negative manner, is one of the reasons laws exist in the first place. Social order etc. The punishment should be appropriate to the offense.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    By this logic, I can just kill people without any hate or racism in my little black heart, and I wont get as bad of a sentence if I get caught. YAAAAY!
    Well, we can't discourage selfishness, that is an inherent part of human nature. However, we can try a little harder with hate ~ stupidity. I would for example, rather be murdered by a schizophrenic with delusional thoughts, than be murdered by another guy just because he thought I was prettier than him.

  4. #14
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    For more clarity in understanding, I think hate crimes should be renamed to "intractably stupid crimes." Then nobody would argue about this. Some thoughtless politician always screws up the semantics, and then a debate arises unnecessarily. "Hate crime" sounds too biased and dogmatic. "Intractable/stupidity" is factual. You can't argue it.

    Like the group from the PITA organization: They raided UCR to free wildcats from a laboratory experiment. Little did they know, they were not saving them, they were responsible for the death of most of them. Why? This is not their natural habitat, they will soon die. That is intractably stupid. To the point where there is no hope for reform. Live in a hole.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    For more clarity in understanding, I think hate crimes should be renamed to "intractably stupid crimes." Then nobody would argue about this. Some thoughtless politician always screws up the semantics, and then a debate arises unnecessarily. "Hate crime" sounds too biased and dogmatic. "Intractable/stupidity" is factual. You can't argue it.

    Like the group from the PITA organization: They raided UCR to free wildcats from a laboratory experiment. Little did they know, they were not saving them, they were responsible for the death of most of them. Why? This is not their natural habitat, they will soon die. That is intractably stupid. To the point where there is no hope for reform. Live in a hole.

    As for hate crimes, it could very well be a semantics issue. However, that doesn't negate the actions under that category are still against the law. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called a crime. Should hate be the name of the official legal subsection? That's up for debate, but it isn't likely to change.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    As for hate crimes, it could very well be a semantics issue. However, that doesn't negate the actions under that category are still against the law. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called a crime. Should hate be the name of the official legal subsection? That's up for debate, but it isn't likely to change.
    Yea, most likely not. It just seems that people have this intense dislike for things that sound too liberal. I was just thinking that a more stigmatized and honest title could at least conjure up some negative associations, and maybe avoidance of hate. Maybe it would augment efficiency by eliminating more captious arguments. If not altogether, at least it would inchoate.

    But yes, this does not negate actions under this category.

  7. #17
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    The ground I see with hate crimes is that not just one person, but an entire group is discriminated against for intimidation. If anyone would like to see what happens when it gets out of hand, see nazi germany. Had the early attacks on german jews not been controlled, perhaps the nazi party might not have created the momentum it did...

  8. #18
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    I don't know if those were 100% hate crimes. A lot of those cases might have been non-elective crimes against humanity. Adolf Hitler and his adherents were pretty vehement about there agendas. I'm sure an open minded attitude towards the Jews would not have been taken too lightly. I would speculate that a lot of Germans at that point in time felt compelled to commit these crimes in order to survive.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    By this logic, I can just kill people without any hate or racism in my little black heart, and I wont get as bad of a sentence if I get caught. YAAAAY!
    Sometimes I regret that I am technically a moderator and am supposed to stay above flames. PS. I love when you say "logic." It's hilarious.
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    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #20
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    i'm referring to the first stages of brown shirts. his supporters committed hate crimes even before he ran for office

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