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  1. #81
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I will get to my point.

    From the position of foreign policy it would be suicidal to attain something like this. Since you can't come just on a half of entire thing it is better not to come at all.

    You guys should celebrate you president actually has some brans.
    Thank you for outlining that! It seems a lot of people are hung up on the value-based ideals for such a decision rather than, as some others of us have tried to point out, diplomacy. THINK AND FEEL. For sustainability in a global community!

    But, yes, if we use our value-judgment only, it is a bad decision, I guess.

  2. #82
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    ^That's fine, pushing for diplomacy over violence but how is that a good defense for a Commander In Chief to shrug off those he's in command over. People who have made/been at the brink of making the ultimate sacrifice for the conflicts that they've fought in simply because it was their duty to the nation?
    Oh I agree that he should of went, assuming there wasn't a security risk or something that happened which would better excuse the absence.

  3. #83
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Oh I agree that he should of went, assuming there wasn't a security risk or something that happened which would better excuse the absence.
    Word. I refuse to buy "security risk" though... Is it really that hard for our damn President to get proper security? Hell, he lands in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. If he wanted to, and felt obligated to attend, there's no good reason why he couldn't (unless of course intelligence suggested there was a planned attack/assassination deal of some sort at/around that location... But that's besides the point because that wasn't the case.).

  4. #84
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    The pandering to celebrities crap is just that - a load of crap. There were celebrities at the CiC ball (namely, Bon Jovi and some others, including some American Idol winner), and that is supposed to be a ball to celebrate the military. Was he pandering then? Did he go just for Bon Jovi?

    In fact, there were celebrities at many of the balls. Does that mean that Obama's having attended some of these balls was for the purpose of mingling with celebrities? That seems a bit like a non-sequitur to me.
    The pandering to celebrities crap is a load of crap, but what is not a load of crap is the fact that the CiC ball was in honor of The President, not the men and women who serve in the armed forces like the MOH ball was. The CiC event he choose to go to was a celebration of his election and in his honor, the other event was to celebrate the vets service and in their honor.

  5. #85
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    The pandering to celebrities crap is just that - a load of crap. There were celebrities at the CiC ball (namely, Bon Jovi and some others, including some American Idol winner), and that is supposed to be a ball to celebrate the military. Was he pandering then? Did he go just for Bon Jovi?

    In fact, there were celebrities at many of the balls. Does that mean that Obama's having attended some of these balls was for the purpose of mingling with celebrities? That seems a bit like a non-sequitur to me.
    They made the big campaign contributions and worked on his campaign, seems like the smart thing to do would be to mingle and party with them at the end, he's counting on their support when it comes time for re-election.

  6. #86
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    For the record, I don't know the entire story but I do get the gist of it, and this does seem like something he should have attended.

  7. #87
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    He should apologize because some people have taken it personally. An apology costs little and quells a lot of anger. This is especially important in regards to such a large group that plays an integral role in national defense. He wouldn't want them to rebel and turn against us.


    It seems like your perspective has been shaped by the military's values and traditions, regardless of whether you're sentimental or not. You see this as enlightening, but others may see it as a personal connection that distorts objectivity. Both interpretations are valid.


    What you're describing is human nature. People who haven't been in the military don't feel a connection to those have been. It's a different culture, a different world, and people on both the civilian and military sides see the other as backwards and alien in some way. The fact is, people tend to feel connections to those who they share common values, perspectives, and experiences with. The people who they've worked with, who they grew up with. You are no exception, I think. Civilians view military and ex-military as hard, mind-numbed people who serve and follow certain things unquestioningly, thus they don't remember what it means to be a typical American anymore. Military view civilians as soft, undisciplined, petty, and selfish people who don't appreciate what the government and military do to keep them alive. Neither view is totally wrong, of course.


    You have succeeded in making it clear that you think it's self-evident why it's important. You're telling us that we should feel an instinctive compulsion to honor people who have been deemed worthy of an award for military service. Some people may not agree that military service is honorable because it involves killing. Still others might think that it's wrong for someone to serve their country for the sake of being honored rather than for its own sake. You have a valid perspective, certainly, but you haven't tried to convince us why it's the best of all possible perspectives.
    It is the best because, of all our military, the medal of Honor winners best represent us as the military. It is everything civilians hear about in stories, and everything anyone who wants to be a real soldier aspire to be. To pick any event over this one, it is a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    Here is an address to a list of the many celebrations of the evening beginning with the ten "official" balls:

    Inaugural Balls 2009 - A Guide to Inaugural Balls and Galas

    I'm curious if the American Legion took a particular political stance during the election...I wonder who they might have put their resources behind?

    I can't even begin to imagine what the logistics of the inaugural evening were like...tricky at best.

    I'll be much more impressed by what the administration does for our disabled veterans and those returning home who need a variety of services. Time will tell. There seemed to have been a bit of a problem with the VA during the last administration as I recall....

    I do not believe from what I read that this event was a medal of honor ceremony...it was an event honoring those who have already recieved it...and I believe that it (the MOH) is awarded by the sitting president...
    Correct, it was honoring those who already received them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    I seemed to recall something about the presentation of the Medal of honor...so I tried to track it down:

    All Medal of Honor recipients receive invitations to attend Presidential inaugurations and accompanying festivities....

    Is it an outrage that president Obama did not attend the American Legion Ball? Or that A president didn't?
    It is an outrage that any president would miss it. I would be making just as big a fuss if someone I voted for did not make it.. even moreso probably, because I voted for him.

    The honor given is that if they want to attend OTHER balls, they are capable of this. But that this smaller one was one organized FOR them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think Obama should have attended, but...there wouldn't be nearly as much complaining if Bush had done the same.
    I don't think this is the case either. If I had seen "Bush Snubs MoH Ball" in the title, I'd be even more outraged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    Nah. I try to stay out of political debates. I do want Beat, Kyuuei, and the other soldiers here to know that there are some of us who genuninely support them.
    Appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    with one being ....
    Commander-in-Chief's Inaugural Ball
    I've served for 4 years, never did anything worth medals and accomplished little. Honoring those who went above and beyond what they were contracted to do is entirely different imo.

    It has nothing to do with Obama as a man, or anyone.. It has to do with a President missing something very important, even if the media and schedule didn't deem it so. Anyone who tells me that left-winged people wouldn't have been all "OMG BUSH WAS THE FIRST PREZ TO MISS THE MOH BALL. SEE WHY HE'S EVIL NAO?!" had better eat their hats now. It's not a Bush V.S. Obama thing. It's not a right vs left, or even a tradition vs political statements thing. It's just about the commander-in-chief not taking the extra mile around to see and honor the Medal of Honor recipients.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I will admit I am very uneducated in these matters. I too, am curious to know what that entails.
    I can tell that that they never even bother to tell anyone about the Medal of Honor when they teach you about the awards you could get. Most of the time you hear about it.. it's given to people who died doing heroic, extraordinary things. There aren't many who receive it.. surely not many who are alive to receive it.
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  8. #88
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Just to clear things up, I don't think he went to the balls he did attend to socialize with celebs but simply I think his priorities were screwed...

  9. #89
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    but what is not a load of crap is the fact that the CiC ball was in honor of The President, not the men and women who serve in the armed forces like the MOH ball was. The event he choose to go to was a celebration of his election and in his honor, the other event was to celebrate the vets service and in their honor.
    That's an interesting term there: honor.

    I wonder if it is honorable to attend an event, not just only in honor of you, but, YOU, as their leader, whose lives you are taking an oath to protect without prejudice through the responsibility of being the commander in chief for all their missions? Who are currently serving YOU (the newly appointed CIC)? Not those who served your country when you were merely a citizen, under the (perhaps, right OR wrong) leadership of others who you may or may not have agreed with.
    Or...is it more honorable to acknowledge those that are presently sworn to take your directions as their new CIC?

    I wonder, again, what is honor.....

  10. #90
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    He's not a monarch or a dictator, and the U.S. military serves our nation and it's people as does The President.

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