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  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    There's a LOT of symbolism behind it all, and for him to miss it, is disappointing at best.
    Agreed. If a simple oversight, he should (in the moral, not political, sense) apologize and admit he was wrong, pledging not to do it again. Personally visiting all medal of honor recipients would be a good idea (morally AND politically). If its a deliberate snub (which I think is unlikely, if for no other reason than it makes no political sense), its contemptible.

  2. #22
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    To anti-social one: I'm more ashamed at how many people are quick to blame this on the skepticism of Obama by everyone who doesn't support him.

    It's less about how you feel on Obama, and more about how any president should behave. To say that attending things involving the highest awarded veterans is not the commander-in-chief's responsibility is absolute trash.

    I don't care what his schedule was, is, or will be. It's a disappointing move on his part to be seen at a celebrity ball, or any other ball, without attending to his responsibility first.
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  3. #23
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Have any of you unphased served in the armed forces??
    I haven't. What does that have to do with it? It doesn't change the nature of the situation, only the person's perspective.
    I'm not the most sentimental about all the armed forces shit, but I CAN say if I earned a Medal of Honor, the highest frikken award you can be awarded in the entire Army.. I would want the commander-in-chief to be there to see me.
    I think the first sentence in that statement is false. But yeah, I can see how you might want that kind of recognition for such an achievement. Still, I think you'd be understanding if the president couldn't come because he had to deal with an important issue that affected the whole country at that time, and that he had responsibilities to the whole nation rather than just congratulating the people who earned awards. For all we know, something major and secret happened that we don't know about that caused him to miss it.
    Celebrity balls, and 10 others can be set aside.. The medal of honor is like, the ultimate award. No president ever missing it ever.. and commander-in-chief means his responsibilities belong to the army as well. I agree that people should be pissed off about it. It's not suspicion with me, or skepticism. It's that it's part of his duty to honor those that have served and got the highest award for serving extraordinarily well, because it's those people that protected our freedom the most. The very thing he stands for. There's a LOT of symbolism behind it all, and for him to miss it, is disappointing at best.
    Yes, there is a lot of symbolism. The question is whether it's really wise to accept and play into that symbolism so completely. When people do that, it's quite easy to look like you're doing something meaningful when in reality you're just going through the motions. Symbols have their uses, but their meanings shouldn't be trusted implicitly.

  4. #24
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Agreed. If a simple oversight, he should (in the moral, not political, sense) apologize and admit he was wrong, pledging not to do it again. Personally visiting all medal of honor recipients would be a good idea (morally AND politically). If its a deliberate snub (which I think is unlikely, if for no other reason than it makes no political sense), its contemptible.
    To reply to those thinking it's political strategy: Let's not compromise our responsibilities by using politics? Statements should not be made at the expense of those who fought hardest to let you remain where you stand.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  5. #25
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I haven't. What does that have to do with it? It doesn't change the nature of the situation, only the person's perspective.


    I think the first sentence in that statement is false. But yeah, I can see how you might want that kind of recognition for such an achievement.


    Yes, there is a lot of symbolism. The question is whether it's really wise to accept and play into that symbolism so completely. When people do that, it's quite easy to look like you're doing something meaningful when in reality you're just going through the motions. Symbols have their uses, but their meanings shouldn't be trusted implicitly.
    First it has a LOT to do with it. I probably wouldn't have cared nearly as much about any of this had I not been in the military myself. It's one thing to say from the sidelines what you think, it's another to live it and breathe it and then make a decision. I also get very fired up when men who have never raised their hands and served tell me whether I should serve on the frontlines, or in combat at all. Like for example: Even in the most simple of ceremonies, the higher-ups are required to be there, and official apologies are ALWAYS given to the troops for any higher-up that cannot attend due to his or her schedule. Even if we don't seem to care one way or the other, this is the proper way. The highest position in the army should not be held to any exceptions. Since you are not in the armed forces, I don't know if you're aware of this, but this is the way things are done.

    Second. How can you say the way I feel is, in any way at all, false? It's how I would want things, as a military soldier, to be done.

    And third. It is his responsibility. It is not just symbolism. And some traditions are there for good reason and I think i've already made my point as to why it should remain painfully clear.
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  6. #26
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    First it has a LOT to do with it. I probably wouldn't have cared nearly as much about any of this had I not been in the military myself. It's one thing to say from the sidelines what you think, it's another to live it and breathe it and then make a decision. I also get very fired up when men who have never raised their hands and served tell me whether I should serve on the frontlines, or in combat at all. Like for example: Even in the most simple of ceremonies, the higher-ups are required to be there, and official apologies are ALWAYS given to the troops for any higher-up that cannot attend due to his or her schedule. Even if we don't seem to care one way or the other, this is the proper way. The highest position in the army should not be held to any exceptions. Since you are not in the armed forces, I don't know if you're aware of this, but this is the way things are done.
    I'm sure he's going to apologize. I never said he shouldn't. I just said that there could possibly have been more important things to the nation that he was dealing with when he missed it.
    Second. How can you say the way I feel is, in any way at all, false? It's how I would want things, as a military soldier, to be done.
    "I'm not the most sentimental about all the armed forces shit," this is what I disagree with. I think you ARE sentimental about it. And that's okay, you should be. You've been in the armed forces, you feel a connection to that institution and take what happens in regards to it personally.
    And third. It is his responsibility. It is not just symbolism. And some traditions are there for good reason and I think i've already made my point as to why it should remain painfully clear.
    You haven't actually made a point. You've just made assertions that appeal to values and perspectives you expect us to share. You haven't given us reasons to adopt those values or perspectives if we don't already have them, you've just taken it for granted that we should just know on some level that they're the right ones.

  7. #27
    Member *Strictly_The_Facts*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    ^Did you read the article and look at the balls he did attend? The first president to avoid this particular ball... I don't see that as being a mere slip of the brain or something.

    I expect our president to be a "cheerleader" at a ceremony where troops are awarded Medals of Honor and stuff...
    I 100% agree! This is ridiculous that there is a single person on this site defending such an atrocious action. It's almost disgusting to be honest!

    Celebrities were a plenty at the balls, with Stevie Wonder, Shakira, Mary. J. Blige, Faith Hill, Jay-Z, Alicia Keys, Adam Levine, will.i.am, Sting, Mariah Carey, and Leonardo DiCaprio in attendance at the Neighborhood Ball
    Did you all READ the article?! Yea he had better things to do like attend the Neighborhood Ball with all the CELEBRITIES than the Heroes Inauguration Ball where FORTY-EIGHT soldiers of our USA were getting Medal of Honors! That is a spit in the face to our courageous troops!

    The only President EVER to skip this event at at time when he should be Honoring our brave soldiers who fight EVERYDAY for our freedoms!!! But no, I guess hanging with the celebrities is more important right? I can't believe some of the post I have read here...
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  8. #28
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    What I was trying to say with my story was that presidents that are clearly left are usually not interested in this kinds of things. In case of my country the president was not even affraid of starting a open conflict with military. But very large part of military personal took it personally.


    I think that Obama has better things to do but it is not impossible that something similar will happen in the USA as it did in my country.
    People that are too convervative could lose their job if you ask for my opinion.

  9. #29
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'm sure he's going to apologize. I never said he shouldn't. I just said that there could possibly have been more important things to the nation that he was dealing with when he missed it.


    "I'm not the most sentimental about all the armed forces shit," this is what I disagree with. I think you ARE sentimental about it. And that's okay, you should be. You've been in the armed forces, you feel a connection to that institution and take what happens in regards to it personally.


    You haven't actually made a point. You've just made assertions that appeal to values and perspectives you expect us to share. You haven't given us reasons to adopt those values or perspectives if we don't already have them, you've just taken it for granted that we should just know on some level that they're the right ones.
    I hope he does apologize.. but if people didn't display outrage about it, then why would he apologize in the first place? More importantly, if you aren't offended by this, why would it matter if he apologized at all? If he didn't.. would you honestly still be saying you think he should??

    And no, I am not the most sentimental on it all. I meant in the military stand-point. There are lots of soldiers that love ceremonies, that love traditions, dress blues, and meeting and greeting higher ups. I am not one of these. But I still want to see the higher-ups held to the standards we are, and even more-so, because the higher you get, the more standards you have. This should ring true for everyone. To quote Silently honest: "But something holds true for everything in life, you can know of something, and have an opinion about it, but unless you've been apart of that experience you don't know it."

    My point is that, as civilians, you don't NEED to be in the military to be outraged by this. I am just as outraged at how little everyone cares that the president honors veterans. There is No other ball listed that held the responsibility and importance that as that particular one. There are balls all over the damn country all the time.. how come EVERY president could make it, but this one couldn't? He could, is my statement. And any statement made over the military, his dislike or like of the way thigns are ran, should NOT reflect on the veterans that have already served.

    I think it's outrageous that just because people aren't in the military, they seem to care significantly less than those in it.

    There was a picture I saw one time.. of the colors of the flags going by.. and the ONLY person standing and showing respect was the veteran in a wheelchair. This was not a military ball, or a "YAY ARMY!" ball. This was honoring those who have honored our country the most with their service. There is NOTHING insignificant about that, or his lack of presense there. THat was my point entirely. You all SHOULD care, because it IS important, whether you like the military or not or are in it or not. This was all my entire point. Did you think I did not succeed in making it in my previous statements?
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

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  10. #30
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Strictly_The_Facts* View Post
    Did you all READ the article?! Yea he had better things to do like attend the Neighborhood Ball with all the CELEBRITIES than the Heroes Inauguration Ball where FORTY-EIGHT soldiers of our USA were getting Medal of Honors! That is a spit in the face to our courageous troops!
    For those talking about the inanity of him not attending - he didn't attend a relatively small and unofficial ball, removed from the official schedule (ie: media, etc.) because of 'logistical concerns' by the hosts. It's really not the end of the world. The balls he *did* attend were geographically close, some even in the same building. The security concerns were a major component of the decision as well.

    Was it intentional? Yes. Biden did attend, for example.

    I 100% agree! This is ridiculous that there is a single person on this site defending such an atrocious action. It's almost disgusting to be honest!
    Almost as ridiculous as forming an opinion on just an article and making such a hardened opinion about it.

    It was intentional, yes, but it's hardly as clear cut as it seems.

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