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  1. #11
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Yeah, this kind of solidifies my thoughts that Obama just doesn't back the troops. A little scary, considering he's our commander in chief in a time of conflict. To do something like this, isn't that an arrogant and clear message?


    Obama Snubs Nation's Heroes, Becomes the First President to Skip Ball Honoring Medal of Honor Recipients in Over 50 Years | Cleveland Leader

    "From there they went to the Home State Ball for Illinois and Hawaii, the Commander-in-Chief Ball"

    Um....could it be an issue of logistics and security? That many balls, not enough of the O-man? And, didn't Biden go to the Heroes ball? And...isn't the "Commander-in-Chief" Ball one where enlisted active duty and reserve military peeps appear? Which he did go to....

    From his logic, I'd say, out of all the different pies to keep one's finger in, it is best to give appearance to different varieties of balls, and one military ball is enough.

    No?

    We could perhaps then argue why appearance at the Commander-in-Chief ball vs. Heroes ball, but, it's kinda self-explanatory in the names, I'd think.

    Aside: not that the O-man isn't a 'hero' (yet), just to imagine him in tights....those chicken legs. *swoon*

  2. #12
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There's also a lot of irony here: Democrats were told to trust Bush and that "he knows stuff we don't" , "he's president, he has lots of decisions to make," etc. Why the double standard already? People are just so inconsistent.
    While I agree in general, this is a pretty specific oversight.

    It was intentional and it does send a message. And Beat's message pretty much holds the entire story - those that are against him are simply against him and they don't matter. They are marginalized now. What matters is the support he can drum up for his plan of action. By continuing to work himself over (how many balls did he go to?), he can't be claimed of inaction, simply not having enough time. Only a narrow subset of opinions will be leveled against him (see:OP), which is only marginally worse than what would be leveled against him no matter what he did.

    Small cost, clear message. His presence is tacit support for that event/group/concept. By intentionally setting the lines, he is setting up his 'pieces' in the political arena.

    Rather fascinating to watch, actually. This is what politics should be - what happens when you have a deliberate and intelligent leader mixed with clear public intent.

  3. #13
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think that he probably should have attended if he was able, considering how important it was to people. But if he had something more important to do at that time, then I don't think such a big deal should be made of it.
    I don't have his schedule or anything but apparently the "more important" activities were the party-type balls where big name celebrities made their appearance. Obama is Lready under scrutiny with the military and where he stands on his allegiance to an extent. If for no other reason, I think showing his face for public relations would have been a smart move. Being the first president not to attend something like that seems like kind of a big deal...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Small cost, clear message. His presence is tacit support for that event/group/concept. By intentionally setting the lines, he is setting up his 'pieces' in the political arena.

    Rather fascinating to watch, actually. This is what politics should be - what happens when you have a deliberate and intelligent leader mixed with clear public intent.
    Interesting angle

  5. #15
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Lready under scrutiny with the military and where he stands on his allegiance to an extent.
    You wouldn't know it by the contributions he got from military personnel, at least those that are deployed. Which is historically very unusual.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Could it be an effort to downplay the high value we have on war in this country? If so I hope tending to our present veterans' needs don't also become neglected.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #17
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Have any of you unphased served in the armed forces??

    I'm not the most sentimental about all the armed forces shit, but I CAN say if I earned a Medal of Honor, the highest frikken award you can be awarded in the entire Army.. I would want the commander-in-chief to be there to see me.

    Celebrity balls, and 10 others can be set aside.. The medal of honor is like, the ultimate award. No president ever missing it ever.. and commander-in-chief means his responsibilities belong to the army as well. I agree that people should be pissed off about it. It's not suspicion with me, or skepticism. It's that it's part of his duty to honor those that have served and got the highest award for serving extraordinarily well, because it's those people that protected our freedom the most. The very thing he stands for. There's a LOT of symbolism behind it all, and for him to miss it, is disappointing at best.
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  8. #18
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    This story reminds me of something similar that happend in my country few years back.

    New president that started his presidency was clearly more left then the last one.
    So he came into the conflict with generals in hight command. After that there was a war between two sides that was fought all over the media.

    When dust settled down, half of the generals in high command were no longer in military.

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Could it be an effort to downplay the high value we have on war in this country?
    I doubt it. He nominated a lot of high military personnel to his cabinet (unusual), has a lot more support from the military (unusual) and is increasing the size of the military (unusual).

    So, you hand over power and money with one hand, which is essentially the needs of the military, and makes them dependent upon him. This is the exact opposite sort of control of the slash-back/overload pendulum that has been going on. It essentially gives him the capital he needs with the military to make change - and it allows him to have a different public face, such as this (although I think this is blown out of proportion for what it is), which is more social capital.

    Having said that, the primary goal here is retooling the military, or at least that's what his public face says. His actions have been fairly consistent with that. Even bringing home the troops is part of the overall roadmap - it will be easier to transition more disillusioned troops into alternative jobs - more local jobs, I'm sure it will be advertised for.

    He isn't a planner in the way that is forceful - the above example is him channeling each situation to his favor. That's exactly what he does - positive or negative (ie: his campaign quickly shifted negative at sentiment change.)

    But the bottom line is that he is going to be attacked by observers (just search the net for it this topic). But they don't matter - the military is going to "bottom line" it. Do we get money? Jobs? Safety? Yes. Then support is incoming. He can push pretty far, and only honor certain key camps within the military. I don't know the full internal politics, or if they apply to this example, but this was a message... public, and I would suspect, private - to the military camps.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Yeah, this kind of solidifies my thoughts that Obama just doesn't back the troops. A little scary, considering he's our commander in chief in a time of conflict. To do something like this, isn't that an arrogant and clear message?


    Obama Snubs Nation's Heroes, Becomes the First President to Skip Ball Honoring Medal of Honor Recipients in Over 50 Years | Cleveland Leader
    Hrmm. Well in regards to this article...

    I think at first glance it seems like he's an odious character who made the wrong choice for selfish reasons. At second glance, it seems like he's a busy guy who made the wrong choice for the wrong reasons, at third glance, he's a savvy guy who made a tough choice with the stakes and information at hand. And this article is the perspective of someone on the "wrong" side of that tough choice.

    I'll have to thank my forum peers for the alternate perspectives on this one. 1D+1D+1D = almost 3D view. (Now, to channel a roomful of Ni-doms for the fourth dimensional view. )

    On a more personal note, I think your initial reaction is human Beat, because you are. I also think that the perspectives of our peers can help us hammer out our gut reactions into something a little more well-rounded and well-founded, even if it leads to further disagreement. This place can act as a great testing ground for ideas and reactions *at times. Just laying stuff out there and your reaction to it, to see how it measures up, to see if people can shed light in new directions --it's damn helpful. I'm big on metaphors so here's one: every topic is a 3-, maybe 4-dimensional object, so if each of us is pinging light from our own angle, we'll track its topography much more accurately then if we were doing it alone.



    [Please forgive the unsolicited school-marming, true to form I'm trying to facilitate understanding.] That said, I doubt this was done as an intentional snub to Medal of Honor holders or as a gross political/leadership oversight. Obama seems much too savvy for that; with his army of aides to boot it seems illogical and unlikely. I'm sure there are factors at work we haven't considered, but whether for good or ill (based on my values) I cannot say.



    *Note disclaimer. Sometimes too much input can be paralyzing rather than catalyzing.
    Last edited by iwakar; 01-26-2009 at 01:37 PM. Reason: qualifiers
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