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View Poll Results: How large was the Reagan era shift?

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  • The U.S. turned farther right than most think.

    3 25.00%
  • Most perceptions are correct.

    1 8.33%
  • The U.S. did not turn as far right as most think.

    5 41.67%
  • U.S. culture/society shifted right.

    0 0%
  • U.S. government shifted right.

    3 25.00%
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  1. #1
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Default Reagan's right turn

    It's usually agreed that around the time of Ronald Reagan's election to the presidency, the United States' politics "shifted rightward." Some say this was a landmark, similar in importance to Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, and other large figures who brought shifts.

    Do you think the U.S. really turned as far right (from where it was before then) as people generally think? Or do you think it's understated? Do you think it's an accurate claim?

    Did U.S. culture/society turn right, or did government, or did both, or neither?
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #2
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    First of all, it's obvious that not everything in the US changes in concert. It seems to me that much of the political establishment did turn right. Look at the famous case of Barry Goldwater, who was trounced as "too conservative" in the 60s, and by the end of his life, had fallen-out with the Republican party for being "too liberal". But, the political beltway isn't everything. For instance, the progression of gay rights is an obvious sign of how social matters didn't all turn right. And for all of the bold talk about it, Roe v. Wade still hasn't been overturned.

    So, it fractured. I think the social and culture nature of the US has actually largely liberalized over the past 30 years. It can be hard to tell, because right-winger fundamnetalists have gotten louder in response, but that's actually the mark of their anxiety. On the other had, looking at Reagan, both Bushes, and Clinton, not to mention who they ran against, I'd say Washington itself definitely took a right turn while the commons liberalized.

    The elite world, is often an entirely different world.

    EDIT: I didn't even look at the poll options when I wrote this. Good choices you put there.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    My brain keeps asking "compared to what".

    I guess I would say that Reagan turned America as far to the right as Bill Clinton turned it to the left.

  4. #4
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    My brain keeps asking "compared to what".
    Compared to "common wisdom," to popular opinion. Do you think our idea of the effect is exaggerated, or is it realistic? Or maybe it's larger than we think?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I guess I would say that Reagan turned America as far to the right as Bill Clinton turned it to the left.
    Okay.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #5
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    My brain keeps asking "compared to what".

    I guess I would say that Reagan turned America as far to the right as Bill Clinton turned it to the left.
    I think the most logical assumption would be compared to the era before Reagan.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #6
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think the most logical assumption would be compared to the era before Reagan.
    Yes, and how far from there. That was covered in the OP.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Compared to "common wisdom," to popular opinion.
    ...
    Ah.
    I guess I don't know since I don't pay attention to popular opinion.
    But I did give you my own opinion, since I was there.

  8. #8
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Default

    He rose taxes, which included the biggest tax hike since WWII, and grew government. Reagan made a Right-turn, only in rhetoric.

  9. #9
    Member *Strictly_The_Facts*'s Avatar
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    thoughts on Reagan http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/op...13herbert.html

    Andrew would not survive very long. On June 21, one day after his arrival, he and fellow activists Michael Schwerner and James Chaney disappeared. Their bodies wouldn’t be found until August. All had been murdered, shot to death by whites enraged at the very idea of people trying to secure the rights of African-Americans.

    The murders were among the most notorious in American history. They constituted Neshoba County’s primary claim to fame when Reagan won the Republican Party’s nomination for president in 1980. The case was still a festering sore at that time. Some of the conspirators were still being protected by the local community. And white supremacy was still the order of the day.

    Everybody watching the 1980 campaign knew what Reagan was signaling at the fair. Whites and blacks, Democrats and Republicans — they all knew. The news media knew. The race haters and the people appalled by racial hatred knew. And Reagan knew.

    He was tapping out the code. It was understood that when politicians started chirping about “states’ rights” to white people in places like Neshoba County they were saying that when it comes down to you and the blacks, we’re with you.

    And Reagan meant it. He was opposed to the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, which was the same year that Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney were slaughtered. As president, he actually tried to weaken the Voting Rights Act of 1965. He opposed a national holiday for the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He tried to get rid of the federal ban on tax exemptions for private schools that practiced racial discrimination. And in 1988, he vetoed a bill to expand the reach of federal civil rights legislation.

    Congress overrode the veto.

    Reagan also vetoed the imposition of sanctions on the apartheid regime in South Africa. Congress overrode that veto, too.

    Throughout his career, Reagan was wrong, insensitive and mean-spirited on civil rights and other issues important to black people. There is no way for the scribes of today to clean up that dismal record.

    To see Reagan’s appearance at the Neshoba County Fair in its proper context, it has to be placed between the murders of the civil rights workers that preceded it and the acknowledgment by the Republican strategist Lee Atwater that the use of code words like “states’ rights” in place of blatantly bigoted rhetoric was crucial to the success of the G.O.P.’s Southern strategy. That acknowledgment came in the very first year of the Reagan presidency.
    “If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool. -Carl Gustav Jung *I-74* *N-53* *T-95* *J-89*

  10. #10
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    clinton was matched with a neoconservative congress, so i dont think however left he might have been leaning had any effect. MOnica Lewinsky would be a name few would know otherwise.

    society definitely moved right enough to elect w, allow him to start a war based on lies, and then reelect him, all while maintaining a neoconservative empowered congress until 06.

    oh yeah, fuck reagan.

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