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Thread: Order

  1. #1
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Smile Order

    History.
    Order of events.

    Agriculture.
    Civilization.
    Specific language.
    Trade.
    Politics.

    Have I forgotten something?
    If so, what?

    The order is undefined.
    I do not say it is correct.

    My memory is bad.
    What did I forget?

    What is the order of events?
    In history.

  2. #2
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    History.
    Order of events.

    Agriculture.
    Civilization.
    Specific language.
    Trade.
    Politics.

    Have I forgotten something?
    If so, what?

    The order is undefined.
    I do not say it is correct.

    My memory is bad.
    What did I forget?

    What is the order of events?
    In history.
    Brilliant as always, Wildcat.

    But what is history? A backward glance; a retrospective joining of dots a path of least resistance that picks the largest dot, ignores smaller ones and refuses to see the invisible ones.

    History is collective perception; truth by consensus. We agree to swim around the bowl in one direction and agree it is the truth.

    History is the realm of the bored didact, in search of a straight line.

    But we talk history because we cannot see time. But time is not linear.

    Is time our friend or our foe. Is she finite or infinite, or somewhere in between? Is there an in-betweeen?

    As we go further down, our laws do not work so we invent new ones. And we see nothing but chaos.

    Chaos is order and order is chaos.

    All is nothing and nothing is all.

    We are goldfish in a bowl. But however clever a goldfish is, we know that it can never really know.

    We know this about the goldfish but not about ourselves. How amusing these apes are.

    And the more we know the less we know.

  3. #3
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Language(s) would have come first, followed by rudimentary politics. Rudimentary trade likely came before agriculture, but the latter allowed more complex and expansive forms of politics and trade to develop, leading to "civilization."

  4. #4
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Brilliant as always, Wildcat.

    But what is history? A backward glance; a retrospective joining of dots a path of least resistance that picks the largest dot, ignores smaller ones and refuses to see the invisible ones.

    History is collective perception; truth by consensus. We agree to swim around the bowl in one direction and agree it is the truth.

    History is the realm of the bored didact, in search of a straight line.

    But we talk history because we cannot see time. But time is not linear.

    Is time our friend or our foe. Is she finite or infinite, or somewhere in between? Is there an in-betweeen?

    As we go further down, our laws do not work so we invent new ones. And we see nothing but chaos.

    Chaos is order and order is chaos.

    All is nothing and nothing is all.

    We are goldfish in a bowl. But however clever a goldfish is, we know that it can never really know.

    We know this about the goldfish but not about ourselves. How amusing these apes are.

    And the more we know the less we know.
    Yes.
    Go on.
    When the resistance comes the least?
    In the joining of the dots.

    The bored didact left you the line, but it may be in the wrong order.

    In the sea of nothingness is all.
    Very true.

    The more we know the less we know?
    To know is to see.
    The more we know the more we see how little we see.

    Chaos is order?
    Close.

  5. #5
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Language(s) would have come first, followed by rudimentary politics. Rudimentary trade likely came before agriculture, but the latter allowed more complex and expansive forms of politics and trade to develop, leading to "civilization."
    Bravo. Very good, again.
    Agriculture allowed more complex and expansive forms of politics and trade to develop, leading to civilization.
    Yes!

    And then came the languages.
    As we know them.

    The new baby.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Anentropic IxTx's Avatar
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    Default

    Order vs. Chaos?

  7. #7
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    i think politics came much earlier just by observing my cats.

  8. #8
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Yes.
    Go on.
    When the resistance comes the least?
    In the joining of the dots.
    Precisely, Wildcat. Spot on, as always.

    Shall I play a thought experiment? Assume if you will a tribe of proto-humans, say in Papua New Guinea or South America.

    They have lived for thousands - perhaps tens of thousands of years - and attained the highest order of civilisation.

    How did they get there? What was the order. Let me suggest, just for fun,
    Civilization. Agriculture. Specific language. Politics. Trade. Even more fun, jumble them up, in any order you chose. Reverse the order. As this is a thought experiment you can do this.

    One day the entire tribe is wiped out - perhaps by bird flu, a marauding tribe, or a meteorite strike (a trillion unlikely possibilities).

    Their history is gone. Any influence on the world - forgotten. Who will tell a dead man's story. The victor in the fight? The meteor?

    This tribe is an invisible dot. A million such tribes may have existed - but only the luckiest tribe remains to join the dots.

    All the best.

  9. #9
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    i think politics came much earlier just by observing my cats.
    We can learn much the natural world. A pussy is as good a place to start as any.

  10. #10
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    i think politics came much earlier just by observing my cats.
    Cats can communicate with each other; in that sense, they have an extremely primitive, instinctual language. Without communication, there is no politics.

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