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  1. #41
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    In many ways they already are, especially with the hordes of Mexicans flooding into our country.
    I find those Mexicans that flood into our country and work their asses off to be much more beneficial than those who sit around and just collect their welfare checks.



  2. #42
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    In many ways they already are, especially with the hordes of Mexicans flooding into our country.
    I've heard about Mexicans flooding the US before.
    Is there any data or estimates that show the number of people we are talking about here?

  3. #43
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Mexicans came to the US because our economy was booming and business owners were willing to hire them. I fail to see how this could bring the country down.
    Well yes, business owners were willing to hire them because they'd work for lower wages, which makes it harder for American workers to find decent work to support themselves. We can also add the cultural dimension of them changing the demographic nature of our country, making it largely an extension of Mexico.

    This may also interest you:
    US workers may be significantly less literate in 2030 than they are today.

    The reason: Most baby boomers will be retiring and a large wave of less-educated immigrants will be moving into the workforce. This downward shift in reading and math skills suggests a huge challenge for educators and policymakers in the future, according to a new report from the Educational Testing Service (ETS).
    Coming US challenge: a less literate workforce | csmonitor.com

    There's plenty more to this issue.

  4. #44
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I find those Mexicans that flood into our country and work their asses off to be much more beneficial than those who sit around and just collect their welfare checks.
    I'm not denying the work ethic of Mexicans, nor that many Americans have an attitude problem towards honest work. However, upsetting the problem Americans have towards work by importing cheap Mexican labor is not really the solution to the problem.

    I don't buy the argument "they do the work we don't want to". Even if true, it's morally wrong for a country to rely on others to do work they're too stuck up or lazy to do themselves. Need we forget, that's was a major justification for the slave trade even.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well yes, business owners were willing to hire them because they'd work for lower wages, which makes it harder for American workers to find decent work to support themselves. We can also add the cultural dimension of them changing the demographic nature of our country, making it largely an extension of Mexico.
    That is a bullshit argument. That's the free market at work. If Americans want to be paid more, they have to be more productive.

    As for the change in culture, I'm not worried about that. This is a big country. There is plenty of room.

    This may also interest you:


    Coming US challenge: a less literate workforce | csmonitor.com

    There's plenty more to this issue.
    Immigrants are typically uneducated, but their children aren't. This is an issue that will fix itself.

    P.S. I used to live in south Florida and even had a car totaled by an illegal with no insurance. I have plenty of reasons to hold a grudge against that group of people given what I've seen first hand.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #46
    Sniffles
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    This is where I differ from other "Right-Wingers" in that I don't worship the "free market".

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That is a bullshit argument. That's the free market at work. If Americans want to be paid more, they have to be more productive.
    So you don't believe that a country's economy should give preference towards its own citizens over that of non-citizen foreign workers? Foreign labor should only be imported largely as a supplement for domestic labor.

    P.S. I used to live in south Florida and even had a car totaled by an illegal with no insurance. I have plenty of reasons to hold a grudge against that group of people given what I've seen first hand.
    I don't hold any personal grudge against them either. If anything, I understand the situation many of them are in. I think it's horrible that the Mexican gov't doesn't care to provide for its own people, and thus forcing them to find work up north - and our businesses are all too willing to exploit their poverty for cheap labor. And as an aside, American workers are left without jobs.

    So nobody really benefits from this situation in the long run.

  7. #47
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post

    Immigrants are typically uneducated, but their children aren't. This is an issue that will fix itself.

    I agree with Peguy on this one.
    There is a realistic possibility that the problem will not regulate itself.
    Because this people have high birth rate what means that they could create more people then the system can educate.
    What mean having a slum suburb inside US. What means that you will have to spend even more to keep them under control.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This is where I differ from other "Right-Wingers" in that I don't worship the "free market".
    I'm not a right winger.

    So you don't believe that a country's economy should give preference towards its own citizens over that of non-citizen foreign workers? Foreign labor should only be imported largely as a supplement for domestic labor.
    Protectionism hurts in the long run. What happens when those jobs are shipped overseas because companies can no longer justify operating factories in the US due to the labor cost? That's what we've been seeing for the last 20+ years.

    Why do so many people view lower wages as a bad thing? I think they're missing out on the big picture here. Lower wages also mean lower cost, which means goods are sold for a cheaper price.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I agree with Peguy on this one.
    There is a realistic possibility that the problem will not regulate itself.
    Because this people have high birth rate what means that they could create more people then the system can educate.
    What mean having a slum suburb inside US. What means that you will have to spend even more to keep them under control.
    The US has the ability to educate all of the children of immigrants. What makes you believe otherwise?

    If you want to get into social policy that perpetuates slums, lets talk about things like the War on Drugs.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #50
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm not a right winger.
    Still, it's a common disagreement I have with them.

    Protectionism hurts in the long run. What happens when those jobs are shipped overseas because companies can no longer justify operating factories in the US due to the labor cost? That's what we've been seeing for the last 20+ years.
    I'll admit this is not an easy question to answer, and certainly would require me to get into alot of things. So I'm placing this one on hold.

    Why do so many people view lower wages as a bad thing? I think they're missing out on the big picture here. Lower wages also mean lower cost, which means goods are solder for a cheaper price.
    Low wages are not bad in of itself. What's bad is when those wages are inadequate for providing living needs.

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