User Tag List

First 789101119 Last

Results 81 to 90 of 387

  1. #81
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    No, Jennifer, it's far better to throw a tiger and a lion in a cage, with a clearly visible placard stating they must get along.

  2. #82
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    104 is referring to the number of veterans backing the ending of DADT. The majority of military personnel is reflected below. The opposing side doesn't need to be asked. The numbers that didn't approve openly serving, is the side that's against it.


    December 18, 2006

    • 73% of military personnel are comfortable with lesbians and gays


    • 23% of service members know for sure that someone in their unit is gay, including 21% of those in combat units



    October 26, 2004

    • 50% of junior enlist personnel say that gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military, up from 16% in 1992
    What were the survey questions? I could construct two surveys with vastly different results...

    Survey 1. "Are you prejudiced against homosexuals?"

    Survey 2. "Do you think openly gay men will be accepted without any problems into your squad?"

  3. #83
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    He goes on to explain how he was out to some of his fellow servicemen and they didn't care that he was gay as long as he did his job well.
    Good.
    That's the way it should be.

    I think it's easy to argue about the abstracted aspect of gays in society.
    Many of the people who are afraid of change also have pretty awful intuition and tend to obsess over fears that might or might not be realistic; since they learn through experience.

    Hence, the only way forward is to somehow create an environment where that experience can occur and things can be SHOWN to be far much more okay than they've imagined.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #84
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    No, Jennifer, it's far better to throw a tiger and a lion in a cage, with a clearly visible placard stating they must get along.
    As long as they both speak Chinese (in case the sign is Chinese).

    ....And as long as the sign is hung around the neck of a poor baby gazelle.

    Survey 2. "Do you think openly gay men will be accepted without any problems into your squad?"
    Since that's the issue, that would probably be a better question, pragmatically.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INxJ
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    What were the survey questions? I could construct two surveys with vastly different results...

    Survey 1. "Are you prejudiced against homosexuals?"

    Survey 2. "Do you think openly gay men will be accepted without any problems into your squad?"

    Survey 1 does not fit.

    "73% of military personnel are comfortable with lesbians and gays." If they were prejudice, how on earth could they be comfortable?

    Survey 2 has already been answered.

    "50% of junior enlist personnel say that gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military, up from 16% in 1992." Considering that was 2004, the numbers for approval have most likely increased.

  6. #86
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Survey 1 does not fit. "73% of military personnel are comfortable with lesbians and gays." If they were prejudice, how on earth could they be comfortable?

    Survey 2 has already been answered. "50% of junior enlist personnel say that gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military, up from 16% in 1992."
    Survey 1 was intended to be like your surveys, because most people won't say they're prejudiced.

    Survey 2 was intended to be even more personal than your 50% example, because it drives the taker to consider the relationship to be more realistic than abstract.

    I estimate that if this is true: "50% of junior enlist personnel say that gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military, up from 16% in 1992," then Survey 2 would show a less than 50% Yes/No ratio. Even at 50%, that's a lot of people to worry about for nothing, when you don't have to say "I'm gay."

    Again, being in the military isn't about you and your sex life.

  7. #87
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INxJ
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Survey 1 was intended to be like your surveys, because most people won't say they're prejudiced.

    Survey 2 was intended to be even more personal than your 50% example, because it drives the taker to consider the relationship to be more realistic than abstract.

    I estimate that if this is true: "50% of junior enlist personnel say that gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military, up from 16% in 1992," then Survey 2 would show a less than 50% Yes/No ratio. Even at 50%, that's a lot of people to worry about for nothing, when you don't have to say "I'm gay."

    Again, being in the military isn't about you and your sex life.
    You have nothing to back up why the majority is supposedly going to behave that way. You have disregarded all legitimate polls, and statements by actual military veterans. Their views have weight due to a long history in the service, with actual experience in the military.

    Can you provide something concrete?

  8. #88
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    The survey you posted yourself said 50% of junior enlisted personnel thought openly gay individuals should be allowed in. That means 50% don't, and if you're a student of the human mind, tell me: How many people only said yes because they thought it would be proper to do so, not because they agreed with it?

  9. #89
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INxJ
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The survey you posted yourself said 50% of junior enlisted personnel thought openly gay individuals should be allowed in. That means 50% don't, and if you're a student of the human mind, tell me: How many people only said yes because they thought it would be proper to do so, not because they agreed with it?
    That would apply in most cases, but not this one. It's no secret the military is against homosexuality. People that speak up against an organization that is intolerant, are more likely going to be fearful for stating their approval of allowing gays to openly serve.

    On top of that, that was 2004. Opinion was increased to 73% by 2006. It's now 2009, and it is set to be thrown out altogether. Obama and his very intelligent team wouldn't bother trying, if it was truly going to turn out like you think. Obama is far too calculating for that.

    No one is denying there will be incidents. Yet, that's in no way the majority.

  10. #90
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    It's no secret the military is against homosexuality.
    And yet, you would tell them their business for them, as would civilians like Obama.

    I truly dislike those with agendas, because they're all that matter to them. No one else's concerns are valid.

Similar Threads

  1. Deafies to Hearies: "We don't need no stinking implants!!!!"
    By Mal12345 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 09-01-2012, 06:02 PM
  2. Dont Ask Don't Tell--Homophobia or Sexual Repression?
    By kyuuei in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 12-23-2010, 12:28 AM
  3. I don't want to end up with a guy who's just like my dad...
    By Queen Kat in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-06-2010, 08:30 PM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-06-2008, 10:49 PM
  5. What they don't tell you about eating boogers...
    By The Ü™ in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-13-2007, 10:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO