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  1. #371
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    im sorry, but that article was crap. Im sure there are some soldiers that do not like gays serving. Im sure there are also soldiers that do not like blacks, or whites, or women, or ... serving, but getting a few anonymous comments amongst 6 figures of troops is not indicative of anything.

    There may very well be a strong bias, but the article did nothing to confirm it. FTIW, I know a marine veteran that served in iraq who while not gay, is totally cool with gays. he almost lost his life fighting in some of the worst battles (fallujah, etc), so maybe I should anonymously quote just him and make the military out to be more enlightened than it is.

  2. #372
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Don't look at the article as an opinion piece about what should be done with DADT. It isn't saying anything more than "These particular soldiers and officers are wary of the new administration's position on DADT, and they explain why." There isn't a single line of judgment or suggested policy. It's asking a couple soldiers questions related to a hot issue, and reporting the reactions of soldiers contrary to Obama's position.



  3. #373
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    See full article here.
    If attempting to challenge the status quo relied on majority concensus, many things in this world would not have come to fruition. Other things like grassroot movements would be only an idealistic pipedream.
    Last edited by Bellflower; 01-21-2009 at 03:19 PM. Reason: edited "it" to "if" for clarity.

  4. #374
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Don't look at the article as an opinion piece about what should be done with DADT. It isn't saying anything more than "These particular soldiers and officers are wary of the new administration's position on DADT, and they explain why." There isn't a single line of judgment or suggested policy. It's asking a couple soldiers questions related to a hot issue, and reporting the reactions of soldiers contrary to Obama's position.
    5 people out of 140k or whatever the troop numbers are is not enough to write aa couple paragraphs, err article about

  5. #375
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    What a disappointment.
    I thought it was going to be about the apocalypse 'cause all I saw was "Obama to end..."

    I figured the rest of it was "universe" with that 2012 thing.

    Disappointment.
    we fukin won boys

  6. #376
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    5 people out of 140k or whatever the troop numbers are is not enough to write aa couple paragraphs, err article about
    So am I to understand that had they interviewed 10 people in the Obama ceremony yesterday, out of the 1.8 million, and they all said "I like Obama," this allows me to infer that the other 1,799,990 did not like Obama? That's astounding.

    The article does not offer any ratio or data as to how prevalent these opinions are, just that they're there. And using common sense, you can make an argument that those opinions are majority due to the conservative culture of the military. But that's not what the article was saying. You're reading too much into it. It just looks like it was created to offer a different point of view.



  7. #377
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    So am I to understand that had they interviewed 10 people in the Obama ceremony yesterday, out of the 1.8 million, and they all said "I like Obama," this allows me to infer that the other 1,799,990 did not like Obama? That's astounding.
    Thank goodness, you're finally getting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    5 people out of 140k or whatever the troop numbers are is not enough to write aa couple paragraphs, err article about
    You're right, I need to read through 135,000 more one-liners to make sure I've got the right gist of what the army REALLY thinks.

    Look, I just tossed this out because it was generally relevant to the conversation, not because it was concrete proof of a particular view. Stop judging an apple because it wasn't an orange. I think the limitations of it are pretty obvious, and we agree on them. Can we move on yet?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #378
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I don't buy it. I worked in journalism long enough to know that respectable journalists don't report "unnamed and unidentified" sources. Mr. Tim Cocks went and talked to a few of his soldier buddies about it and then made up the last guy because he didn't want to bother looking for differing opinion. It's a trade trick called "manufacturing objectivity".
    Holy cow... Ever heard of Carl Bernstein? Deep Throat?

  9. #379
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    So am I to understand that had they interviewed 10 people in the Obama ceremony yesterday, out of the 1.8 million, and they all said "I like Obama," this allows me to infer that the other 1,799,990 did not like Obama? That's astounding.
    No, I think it is fairly reasonable to allow that people makig the efofrt to go to a presidential ceremony and parade largely are supportive of the person being celebrated. Who joins the military specifically because they do not like gay people?


    I dont think 135k one liners are necessary to gauge the true impact on the troops, but such a short "article" simply looks a bit prejudiced to me, as if the writer had done most of the work before asking anyone any questions.

    However, I'd appreciate a much longer, in depth article which supports the same conclusion, but either way I don't see why gays in the military should be any issue. FFS, it is 2009.

  10. #380
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    The removal of DADT policy would create more problems than necessary... The military just isn't ready. It's easy to say "equality and freedom" from an idealist stand point, but fusing that with reality and "set ways" is a different dilemma and not one that can be hurried. That's my opinion.

    Also, I'd consider it a courtesy if service members weren't referred to as mindless hicks.

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