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  1. #361
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    *Puts on mod cape*

    *Diffuses the situation. Seperates the two*

    I'm playing pretend...
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    The context in which you used it, was meant to be trolling/flaming.
    No, it wasn't. You might think twice about claiming knowledge of motive, given your lack of success in that arena.

  3. #363
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    *Throws dildo at gay easter bunny*

  4. #364
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    How many of you have served in the military? Moreover the officer corp?

    As surprising as this sounds I've seen more officers accepting then enlisted folks, so we can stop with the few insults I've seen on here.

    The problem is culture yes. Forcing sudden culture changes on institutions that are slow with change (and this is a major strength and major weakness of the military) is a little too much shock. If there was a method that could bridge DADT and open acceptance I would be for it, however I can't think of a way. Until then, I would say just let the generational changes factor in. 30 Years might have been too extreme as I was thinking 20 yr olds becoming Flag officers but in truth within 10 years we'll have enough generational change among the corp for it to happen naturally.

    Here is an extreme example. How do you think people would react to hot racking? Just one example of where prejudice in a military environment may quickly turn into morale issues or even unnecessary belligerence.

    Maybe submarines are a bad example because they still don't allow women to server on them (due to space requirements and fundamental changes necessary). Well you all can think that one over.

    ***
    Now to the people who are pro open serving, I agree that people can become tolerant fairly quickly once it starts but do not full yourself that there will not be SERIOUS issues for the first few years. That is why I would wait until we have the military rebuilt from the wear down it currently has, as a minimum. Then there will be several years of issues (unit discohesion and possible hazing/violence) and the JAG will be busy, but the military will adapt. But as others have said, though not in as much "passion", I just don't really see the benefit of forcing it now then letting it change naturally.

    Maybe a relook at "kicking" people out with DADT could be looked at but not to be "open". Hell there are people who purposely say they are gay to abuse DADT and get out of the military at times (some infamous doctors did this after having the military pay their medschool).

  5. #365
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Personally, I would hate to be the last in NATO to allow gays to openly serve.
    It's obvious why that matters to you, but why should I care? This argument seems incredibly superficial to me, appearance being more important than substance. Is it really that important to you what the rest of the world thinks?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #366
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's obvious why that matters to you, but why should I care? This argument seems incredibly superficial to me, appearance being more important than substance. Is it really that important to you what the rest of the world thinks?
    Not really as much of what the rest of the world thinks as what future generations of Americans will think.

    I would prefer to be a part of one of the generations that does away with discrimination and division, not one of them that prolongs it.

    And I think it is pretty clear at this point that the argument to keep DADT is far more superficial than the argument to do away with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #367
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Some troops unhappy about Obama pledge on gays

    See full article here.

    BAGHDAD Many U.S. troops in Iraq were overjoyed to see President Barack Obama take his oath, but some were unhappy about one thing the Democrat has promised to do: permit gay and lesbian soldiers to serve openly.

    Obama said during his campaign he opposed a 1993 law stating that homosexuals are not eligible to work in the U.S. military, widely referred to as the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rule.

    This month, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs, when asked whether the new administration planned to scrap the law, replied on the president's transition website: "You don't hear politicians give a one-word answer much. But it's 'yes'."

    But some of the 140,000 troops still in Iraq almost six years after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein appear uneasy about the prospect...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #368
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    But one U.S. soldier, who asked not to be named or identified by rank, said he agreed with Obama on gays.
    I don't buy it. I worked in journalism long enough to know that respectable journalists don't report "unnamed and unidentified" sources. Mr. Tim Cocks went and talked to a few of his soldier buddies about it and then made up the last guy because he didn't want to bother looking for differing opinion. It's a trade trick called "manufacturing objectivity".
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #369
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I don't buy it. I worked in journalism long enough to know that respectable journalists don't report "unnamed and unidentified" sources. Mr. Tim Cocks went and talked to a few of his soldier buddies about it and then made up the last guy because he didn't want to bother looking for differing opinion. It's a trade trick called "manufacturing objectivity".
    I'll have to ask my friend who's worked in journalism for his entire 20-year career, just to see what he has to say...

    So what exactly are you saying about the article?
    Which aspect(s) do you think are lies?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #370
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I don't buy it. I worked in journalism long enough to know that respectable journalists don't report "unnamed and unidentified" sources. Mr. Tim Cocks went and talked to a few of his soldier buddies about it and then made up the last guy because he didn't want to bother looking for differing opinion. It's a trade trick called "manufacturing objectivity".
    So are you dismissing the article? It's not like it's something we didn't know. There's a bias in the country against gays, and especially the military. If what the author said about the Obama supporter is true, it shows that even agreeing with a repeal of DADT could cause a soldier some trouble among his unit. If it was a fabricated attempt at objectivity, then article still states a worry among some soldiers. Not entirely sure what you're getting at.



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