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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Rather than stats on mauling, closest stats (due to logistical reasons of reporting of cases) would be deaths by pitbull, which averages 3/year in the US, so over a 5-yrs run, that accounts for 15.
    Could you please look up and compare the number of pitbull attacks as opposed to deaths now? I really have better things to worry about. And I'd rather be fired than attacked by a pitbull, any which way you look at it.

  2. #222
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You claim all you want is equality for everyone (which in itself is an idealistic nonsense goal), but what I see you doing is consistently advancing the gay cause, and no other cause, thus how can your opinion be trusted on a matter which doesn't only take gay equality into consideration?
    And this is where you are mistaken. You can't do everything at once. Saying that fighting for a single cause doesn't advance the ideals of equality for all is like saying that studying for one class doesn't help you complete college. You can't do it all at once. You have to focus on an area where progress can be made. You have to work one step at a time to try to make your ideals reality.

    Maybe it is an idealist "non-sense" goal. Maybe it can't be reached. But even so, some things are worth fighting for, even if the fight might seem fruitless to you. I personally am tired of seeing people discriminated and fought against just because they are "different" from the norm. Again, screw the norm. I know most people can't do that, but I have and will.

    P.S., homosexuality is deviant, and that's why it's unnecessary to incorporate into the conservative military. Just because it's not "wrong," doesn't mean everyone will love you for it.
    The conservative nature of the military will remain unless change is instituted in it. It might be painful, (though I doubt the studies that were performed elsewhere in the thread are truly accurate) but it needs to be done.
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    The conservative nature of the military will remain unless change is instituted in it. It might be painful, (though I doubt the studies that were performed elsewhere in the thread are truly accurate) but it needs to be done.
    "Needs to?" Why? And why now, as opposed to a decade or two down the road, when less conflict would likely result?

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The US Mil draws from a different pool than the others, a more conservative pool, and they can't be directly compared.
    But they're not that different. Progress can't be make without risk. I think the opponents are drastically overstating the dangers.
    And I'm going to sign up for some gay-only scholarships too, trying to get the money set aside for the gay people. Of course, if they ask me, I'll just lie about it.
    And if you're caught, you will lose the career dedicated your life to build up. You will suffer even though you done nothing wrong. How would you feel if you were expelled from university because the other students bullied you?

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    But they're not that different. Progress can't be make without risk. I think the opponents are drastically overstating the dangers.
    You guys still don't get it. The military isn't and shouldn't be about sociological progress, let alone a proxy testing ground for new policies.

    And if you're caught, you will lose the career dedicated your life to build up. You will suffer even though you done nothing wrong. How would you feel if you were expelled from university because the other students bullied you?
    It's really beyond me why homosexuals would join an organization which won't allow them to admit their sexual preference, but if they want to, they can get Gung Ho and shut up about it.

  6. #226
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    I'm tentatively out of here, if anyone needs a response to a point of theirs, they can go back and read one of my circa 100 posts here. I've said it all...Twice.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You guys still don't get it. The military isn't and shouldn't be about sociological progress, let alone a proxy testing ground for new policies.
    Let's keep things in perspective. The military is subjected to constant changes beyond its control. Adaptability is a must if they wish to remain strong.

    It's really beyond me why homosexuals would join an organization which won't allow them to admit their sexual preference, but if they want to, they can get Gung Ho and shut up about it.
    Why should they shut up? They are only asking for what they are entitled to. America is a nation that prides itself on freedom and equality.

  8. #228
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Could you please look up and compare the number of pitbull attacks as opposed to deaths now? I really have better things to worry about. And I'd rather be fired than attacked by a pitbull, any which way you look at it.
    I don't think you've very familiar with surveillance data and its constraints. Incidence rates are much harder to report than mortality rates. Cuz well, death is a serious business. On top of that, there's issues with singling out whether the dog in the attack is truly that breed. Third, there is no national system for recording non-fatal dog attacks.

    What you'd want is irrelevant. And for those in the military, it being their career and all, would be a bit more worried about their career being put on the line than getting a snap from their fluffy friend, Muffy, cuz he tried to take his favourite chew toy away.

    You guys still don't get it. The military isn't and shouldn't be about sociological progress, let alone a proxy testing ground for new policies.
    Isn't the military federal government? Isn't the government supposed to be *the* leaders in setting example of upholding the Charter of Human Rights (or whatever doc is equivalent in the US)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I'm tentatively out of here, if anyone needs a response to a point of theirs, they can go back and read one of my circa 100 posts here. I've said it all...Twice.
    You obviously haven't said it all, cuz if you have, questions wouldn't arise, unless you can prove that the ones responding counter to you are systematically *missing* your point.

  9. #229
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Let's keep things in perspective. The military is subjected to constant changes beyond its control. Adaptability is a must if they wish to remain strong.


    Why should they shut up? They are only asking for what they are entitled to. America is a nation that prides itself on freedom and equality.
    You still don't get it. Forcing a conservatively cultured military to accept a new culture that it is threatened by, and resistant towards simply for the sake of idealism would damage the effectiveness that makes the military work. I am of the opinion that the military is the last domino that should fall when it comes to gay equality.



  10. #230
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You still don't get it. Forcing a conservatively cultured military to accept a new culture that it is threatened by, and resistant towards simply for the sake of idealism would damage the effectiveness that makes the military work. I am of the opinion that the military is the last domino that should fall when it comes to gay equality.
    Conservative or liberal, idealism, sentimentality, blah blah, doesn't come into play nearly as much as the very fact that the military is federal government. The government, a representative of the people, are supposed to be THE forerunners in upholding the bill of rights (thought that would be fairly obvious). Otherwise, it negates the trust and vote put on the government.

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