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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Oh, you can change the rules, but you can't make Joe Army like it.
    Or Joe the plumber.

    If the laws/rules are equal, it's really irrelevant what other people think. Everyone dislikes something.


    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    but yeah, i don't get why they would want to join the army.

    i mean, how can they want to die for the guy next to them, if he's not giving him some in the butt? i mean, won't they view every guy as a potential butthole?
    Gays join the army for the same reason straight people do. To serve their country, get money for college, or out lack of any other viable options. Most people that go to war, aren't putting themselves in danger for their army comrades. They do it for their family, friends, support for America, or because they simply have to.

    Men are attracted to lots of women. Doesn't mean anything will come of it. Gays merely having an attraction, isn't the same as trying to do something about it. The homosexuals of both sexes that I know, don't even date people that aren't out as gay, much less straight. Most aren't predators. Just like most heterosexual people aren't predators.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Or Joe the plumber.

    If the laws/rules are equal, it's really irrelevant what other people think. Everyone dislikes something.
    You really think that? Try walking downtown at 3am with $100 bills hanging out of your back pocket and saying "Robbery is against the rules. Everyone dislikes something."

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    ah i can understand why gays would wanna marry

    but yeah, i don't get why they would want to join the army.

    i mean, how can they want to die for the guy next to them, if he's not giving him some in the butt? i mean, won't they view every guy as a potential butthole?
    I dunno. Is that how every guy views every het woman, or do you occasionally think about something other than sex?
    (And that was a serious question. I think you make a good point, and the answers need to be discussed.)

    Now...

    The shower thing, sure. Women aren't expected to shower with het guys. But in general het guys have to learn to deal with having women around them in public and private, and learning how to control the sexual urge.

    Women don't avoid guys all the time just because they imagine the possibility that the guy is always thinking about having sex with them. Even if the guys aren't ones they're interested in... although again, yes, the dynamic plays out that if they're sort of repulsed by the guy, they might avoid him or be grossed out.

    Everyone learns to deal, though, to some degree.

    How do normal "het roles of engagement and interaction" get overlaid into a situation where there are gay males in an all-male environment? Because, really, that's what we're discussing: Some people might be sexually attracted to someone they're dorm'ed with; what's the appropriate response from both ends?

    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    ^ well I think every hetero guy and girl has a right to shower and not be viewed in a sexual manner.
    So... one point:
    Do you think every gay guy who public showers is always staring at your ass?
    Maybe he doesn't find YOU attractive.
    Why do men always assume that it's always about sex, 100%, and that every gay guy wants to jump every man they see?
    I'm not sure every woman likes to assume that all guys are always seeking to pound her, although we're not talking "showers" here; I'd like to assume men occasionally think about something else than sex any time they walk within twenty feet of a woman.

    The other point:
    You can't ever change how someone else feels or control that aspect of things.
    You can only control yourself, and they can only control what they ACT on ... not how they feel.
    Is there enough maturity there to avoid ACTS of disrespect?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Men are attracted to lots of women. Doesn't mean anything will come of it. Gays merely having an attraction, isn't the same as trying to do something about it. The homosexuals of both sexes that I know, don't even date people that aren't out as gay, much less straight. Most aren't predators. Just like most heterosexual people aren't predators.
    so that means hetero sexual guys should be able to take showers with women in government facilities?

    ur not addressing my point.

  5. #15
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    I don't know where I stand on this. I am thinking that I lean towards the military running as smooth as possible in order to protect all of our rights.

    Are there other things that happen in the military that would not be allowed in the civilian domain? Like if my boss started yelling in my face, would that be considered harassment? If I back out of a contract, I might be sued or penalized financially but not put in prison. My point being, it is the military. They train to kill people. Does it need to be fair?


  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So... one point:
    Do you think every gay guy who public showers is always staring at your ass?
    Maybe he doesn't find YOU attractive.
    Why do men always assume that it's always about sex, 100%, and that every gay guy wants to jump every man they see?
    I'm not sure every woman likes to assume that all guys are always seeking to pound her, although we're not talking "showers" here; I'd like to assume men occasionally think about something else than sex any time they walk within twenty feet of a woman.

    The other point:
    You can't ever change how someone else feels or control that aspect of things.
    You can only control yourself, and they can only control what they ACT on ... not how they feel.
    Is there enough maturity there to avoid ACTS of disrespect?

    i don't see how a woman being peeped on in a shower by a man, would feel any different from a man being peeped on in a shower by a gay guy.

    even a fat ugly woman would feel violated being peeped by a guy in a shower.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    so that means hetero sexual guys should be able to take showers with women in government facilities?

    ur not addressing my point.
    Actually, they do. I have a lesbian friend that's in the service. When she was in Iraq, she mentioned having to shower in front of all the guys. Not just her, but all the other women as well. Sometimes, sex did happen and even rape.

    Under normal circumstances, I don't see gay people getting out of line just because they shower together. Also, it's kind of insulting to assume that gay people will just be attracted to all those hypothetical straight people. I mean, please. Preferences and standards exist for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    i don't see how a woman being peeped on in a shower by a man, would feel any different from a man being peeped on in a shower by a gay guy. even a fat ugly woman would feel violated being peeped by a guy in a shower.
    Is he actually peeping?
    Or are you just assuming he's peeping?

    Sometimes it's not much different, too, than feeling guys undress you with their eyes or staring at your boobs. No one should be viewed as meat... but I'm pretty sure guys will say, "Oh, we can't help it, you just have to accept it -- it's not like we're going to ACT on it, right?"

    Feels like of awkward to be on the receiving end of undesired sexual attention, doesn't it?

    But you're right, in the sense there needs to be some sort of pragmatic solution.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Under normal circumstances, I don't see gay people getting out of line just because they shower together. Also, it's kind of insulting to assume that gay people will just be attracted to all those hypothetical straight people. I mean, please. Preferences and standards exist for a reason.
    thats a cop out. thats like saying an ugly fat woman has no right to complain about being peeped on by guys in the shower. lolz

    Actually, they do. I have a lesbian friend that's in the service. When she was in Iraq, she mentioned having to shower in front of all the guys. Not just her, but all the other women as well. Sometimes, sex did happen and even rape.
    lolz~ okay well i guess im glad i never dated a girl in the army then. lolz

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    How do normal "het roles of engagement and interaction" get overlaid into a situation where there are gay males in an all-male environment? Because, really, that's what we're discussing: Some people might be sexually attracted to someone they're dorm'ed with; what's the appropriate response from both ends?
    That's a very good point, Jennifer. I suppose it would be like any situation where one person likes another, but it isn't reciprocated. They either discuss it and work out a plan that is respectful to both parties, or ask for different living arrangements.

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