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  1. #61
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    It's pretty normal here now, it was like -9C today I think. It felt warm by comparison. I think we're going to get a big thaw next week, but I'm not sure. Wouldn't suprise me.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    It's better here now, too. We usualy get a thaw in January.

    I remember a day in 1981 when it got into the seventies.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Nah, just need to build CO2 scrubbers that could reduce co2 by about 4,046,533,630,489 kg a day. More trees, water methods, etc. Lots of options. Only catch is that it is geo-engineering on a global scale, and negative energy, so it would be massively expensive.
    Great, so all the plants can smother to death once you've scrubbed the atmosphere of CO2 .

  4. #64
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Great, so all the plants can smother to death once you've scrubbed the atmosphere of CO2 .
    Just to point out the trap - that's how much CO2 we add just through the use of oil. Just oil.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Just to point out the trap - that's how much CO2 we add just through the use of oil. Just oil.
    Yay more air and warmth for the plants! Oh wait, the global temperatures have been COOLING for the past decade. Poor plants, at least they get more CO2 (until the CO2 scrubbers come).

  6. #66
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    It got down to negative 40 with the wind chill here in Chicago not long ago. I'm happy that this Saturday it is ( * knocks on wood * ) supposed to get up to positive 50.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  7. #67
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Yay more air and warmth for the plants! Oh wait, the global temperatures have been COOLING for the past decade. Poor plants, at least they get more CO2 (until the CO2 scrubbers come).
    Plants aren't the main sink for CO2, and they are carbon storers, which would require increase plant growth of an equivalent amount, when plants are reducing in quantity. That, and half a tree (dry weight) is carbon... or better yet, tree tends to absorb about 30-40kg/year.

    I just revisited the math, and while I overstated it (wrong barrel size, yeesh... metric, people, metric!) - the number you are looking for here, is 213,525,058 km^2 of trees to offset our current carbon use from oil. Some quick math will show you what percent of the world's landmass that is - yes, it's more than we have land.

    Hopefully that puts it in perspective.

    (The math is not terribly difficult - look up world oil use, look up CO2 per litre, do the conversion. Look up tree carbon consumption. Divide.)

  8. #68
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Actually I'm fairly certain the oceans absorb more CO2 than the trees do. Recently read an article with concerns for ocean acidity. To be honest I'm not really concerned. The idea that the earth should always stay exactly the same is ridiculous.



  9. #69
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Actually I'm fairly certain the oceans absorb more CO2 than the trees do. Recently read an article with concerns for ocean acidity. To be honest I'm not really concerned. The idea that the earth should always stay exactly the same is ridiculous.
    Yes, the oceans have historically absorbed a lot more than trees, but there's a problem. The upper layers of the ocean are nearly saturated. And when the temperature rises, the oceans will expel the CO2, just as a bottle of coke will go flat more quickly when it gets hot. The solubility of gases like CO2 decreases when temperature rises. As you can imagine, this could be a huge problem, because it causes a positive feedback loop in the carbon cycle.

    There are a couple potential solutions being researched to combat this:
    - Populate the oceans with a biological organism that absorbs CO2 and then sinks after it dies.
    - Mechanically cycle the unsaturated deep waters of the ocean to the surface, using pumps that operate by harnessing the power of ocean waves.

    I personally think that as human society gets bigger and more complex, we are forced to take on more environmental responsibility if we want to maintain growth. In other words, the more resources we use, the more we are forced to micro-manage the natural processes that would otherwise be in equilibrium.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    - Populate the oceans with a biological organism that absorbs CO2 and then sinks after it dies.
    - Mechanically cycle the unsaturated deep waters of the ocean to the surface, using pumps that operate by harnessing the power of ocean waves.
    Both of those sound like wonderful ideas...
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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