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  1. #11
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Very interesting and no doubt relevant, but that can't be the ONLY reason for Russia wanting to flex their political muscles a little bit with this stunt. They're worried about losing footholds all over eastern Europe
    Of course not, nothing's that simple... But switching off the gas kills two big birds with one little stone.

  2. #12
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Yeah, Russia has a propensity to act that gangster, but it doesn't impress me. It seems more a sign of weakness or fear - defensiveness. They have resources (oil/gas) but they're very dependent on oil/gas prices being high - it's no pre-potato-famine Ireland yet but I think there are some parallels. Russia is actually damned lucky to have all that oil because other than that, they're pretty f*cked in a lot of ways. It'll be interesting to see, historically, how throwing their weight around ends up.

    Also, heads up to the European countries - lessen dependence on oil. Always a smart tactic if you don't have any of your own.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    As long as the beer supply doesnt run out, I am fine, you always can make something up to generate heat... but the beer supply is crucial to survival
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #14
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I think that this is a seeking of atention and making of empty threat(s).

    I think that they are playing games so that they turn out to be in controle.
    If they stop selling oil and gas they will bankrupt (once again).
    Since that is the only real income they have. Ok, they also have the raw materials.

    Over last couple of years the prices is going up for everything they sell. Since this crisis made of prices what it did. Russia is on a life support right now, since they started a huge amount of projects and now they have nothing to fund them.

    I think that they are using tactic that is condemned to fail. Since it becomes more and more obvious that they can't be trusted.

    Maybe they won the war in Georgia but in a political sense it was a debacle.
    Since all countries in eastern Europe formed a quiet pact against Russia.
    With the blessings of their citizens of course.

    I think that Russia is aware that they are losing the war so this a desperate move if you ask me.


    So far I will leave it at this.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Gauche's Avatar
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    I heard on TV today that the crisis is about to be solved and the gas flows again. But I am not sure about the details.
    Well they let the gas flow and stopped it after 3 hours or something, as I heard...

    I didnt get your point of the thread though. Did you mean that you were better off with Russia back then or did you weant to point intrest towards the crisis ? I tell you get used to the word crisis the next one is about to dawn. The time when communist governments lied to the people telling everything is ok are over I think ..
    No, I'm not on either side.. I just wanted to point out what things are being happen out there

    That seems strange considering most of the other countries have nuclear plants. For example, France gets something like two thirds of its power that way. Was there a particular reason for wherever you are from to not be allowed them?
    I think that it was pretty old already, and/or there were perhaps "ecological reasons", like entropie said

    If they stop selling oil and gas they will bankrupt (once again)
    You are of course right at that point, but we all know that every European country is dependent on Russian gas. So Russia has an advantage in terms of negotiation, then.

  6. #16
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    You are of course right at that point, but we all know that every European country is dependent on Russian gas. So Russia has an advantage in terms of negotiation, then.
    If you ask me this is illusion.

    1.If the stop selling oil and gas they will bankrupt and there will be huge mess inside Russia.

    If we overlook that argument then there is another one.

    2. They stop selling gas on the long run no matter what the European enonomy will crash. As it crashes it will take world economy with it. (russian economy included)

    As developed world crashes the Asian countries will have nowhere to sell what they are producing(and go bankrupt). They will probably blame Russia for that, if this happens.

    Plus Russia is importing European products so they will face shortage if this continues


    Russian advantage is illusion

  7. #17
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    They stop selling gas on the long run no matter what the European enonomy will crash. As it crashes it will take world economy with it. (russian economy included)
    You may not have noticed, but the world economy has crashed. Ask yourself who is in control of Russia; do you think the Russian leadership worry that Ivan and Olga won't be shopping in Prada?

    It's the plausibility of the threat that counts. The Ukrainians should factor this in their response.

    And, they have. By cutting off the supply to Europe over "transit charges". The Russians say the US is "advising" the Ukraine... Obviously the Ukrainians aren't smart enough to think of that one themselves. /sarc

    Russia accused of playing 'trick' as gas turned off again - Telegraph

    As developed world crashes the Asian countries will have nowhere to sell what they are producing(and go bankrupt). They will probably blame Russia for that, if this happens.
    Will they? So What. I would conjecture they care less than Israel what the rest of the world thinks.

    Plus Russia is importing European products so they will face shortage if this continues
    No so. No tariffs have been muted; given European (esp. German) relience on Russian gas. They developed a workaround (gas storage) but the long term solution (nuclear) is something they balk at (apart from the French, who rather like being Europe's electricity safety net).

    Russian advantage is illusion
    Maybe, maybe not. The question for Ukraine is: will the EU support it diplomatically against Russian threats. Threats they have demonstrated they will carry out. The answer to that is probably no.

    Some more light reading on the ecomomic background:The row between Russia and Ukraine | Pipe down | The Economist

    All the best.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post


    That seems strange considering most of the other countries have nuclear plants. For example, France gets something like two thirds of its power that way. Was there a particular reason for wherever you are from to not be allowed them?
    Those nuclear plants are a tad bit too old and are considered to be "unsafe", same shit here. It's pretty funny, we're closing down a nuclear power plant now and are about to start building a new one.

  9. #19
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Russian advantage is illusion
    Well they have a shitload of oil in a world that craves oil, and that's not an illusion. They're certainly in a better position with their oil than they would be without it. It just depends on how they handle it and if they continue to think bullying is the way to go.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

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