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  1. #61
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think the amount of time it would take for Catholicism to have a large presence in Israel sets it irrelevantly far into the future. Not to mention that the further you have to look into the future for something to happen, the more unseen factors there are, and the more time there is for things to change. The further you look ahead, the less dependable present trends become.
    Ahhh but you forget that my Ni specializes in seeing the future.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yes I have, and there's the simple factor that the future isn't written in stone. I know you have a hard time comprehending this notion.

    Plus, take into account what Falcarius stated above.
    Your absolutely right. I should definitely remain open to the possibility of Israel becoming a Christian nation.

    Statistically, it's highly improbable.

    As for non-practicing Jews in Israel, I'd have to see a legitimate source quoting numbers before I could seriously take it into any kind of consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    ...also, Christians depend on a Jewish Israel for their Armageddon/Rapture scenario to play out.
    Tis true. Christianity wouldn't even exist without Judaism.

  3. #63
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    If the monk's mother was Jewish, then according to Jewish law he will always be Jewish. Whether he was practicing or not, doesn't take away that status. I wonder what the loophole was for taking his citizenship.
    No Loophole. It was a Jew who told me this story years ago.

    The 'Law of Return' is just wishy-washy.

    From Wikipeadia;


    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

    Exceptions


    A Jew can be excluded from Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return if he or she is considered to be dangerous to the welfare of the State of Israel. Jews who have a past that involves a serious crime, such as murder, or who are fugitives in another country for any felony (unless they are persecution victims) can be denied the right of return, (e.g. Meyer Lansky, Victor Vancier).[5] Specifically excluded from the Law of Return are any "person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his religion." (e.g. Brother Daniel).

    Messianic Jews

    The Supreme Court of Israel ruled in 1989 that Messianic Judaism constituted another religion, and that Jews who had become Messianic Jews were not therefore eligible for Aliyah under the law. The government of Israel used this ruling to exclude anyone who was a Messianic Jew.[6]

    On April 16, 2008, the Supreme Court of Israel ruled in a case brought by a number of people with Jewish fathers and grandfathers whose applications for citizenship had been rejected on the grounds that they were Messianic Jews. The argument was made by the applicants that they had never been Jews according to halakha, and were not therefore excluded by the conversion clause. This argument was upheld in the ruling[7] [8] , and the government agreed to reprocess their applications.
    Last edited by Falcarius; 01-08-2009 at 11:34 AM. Reason: retarded grammar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  4. #64
    Sniffles
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    Anyways, getting back to what I said above about the Rapture:
    Farah proceeds to give us a point-by-point explanation of why evangelical Christians support Israel so steadfastly, and why they are right to do so from a biblical point of view. Consider several of these:
    • The strong evangelical church in America can read the Bible and see that the Jews’ only historic home is in Israel.
    • Most Christians understand that Jesus was a Jew who lived in a Jewish state, albeit one under the colonial rule of the Roman Empire.
    • They understand that God chose to reveal Himself to the Jewish people and the nation of Israel.
    • They believe God made certain promises to the nation of Israel and that today’s Jewish state is a manifestation of those promises.


    It’s all very simple, says Farah.

    Here’s the problem with Farah’s view: no one in the first 1800 years of Christianity would have recognized it. Why do we hear nothing from the early Fathers, or indeed even from Martin Luther or John Calvin, about the Jewish people’s alleged right to return to Palestine? Indeed, if Farah’s points are as obvious as he implies, why did no one within the Christian tradition draw Zionist conclusions from them for 1800 years?

    For that matter, the Jews themselves would not have recognized Farah’s position. The idea that the Jews’ return to the land could be hastened through human effort rather than brought about miraculously at a time of God’s choosing is not to be found anywhere within Jewish thought until the nineteenth century. Yet if, according to Farah, this is precisely how God’s will is to be done, isn’t it a little strange that the Jews themselves had known nothing about it?...

    ...The point here is much more narrow: although a Christian may support the state of Israel if he believes certain secular considerations weigh in its favor, he is not obligated to believe that the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 constituted the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Indeed the overwhelming bulk of Christian thought and history testify against such an interpretation.

    Yet perhaps in Farah and Pat Robertson we are blessed with greater theological and exegetical minds than Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Augustine, Cyril, Jerome, and John Chrysostom. Or maybe those were all anti-Semites.

    The Gospel According to Joe by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
    There is no support for the concept of a Rapture or theological justifications for Israel's existence within Catholic, Orthodox, or Mainline Protestant circles.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    No Loophole. It was a Jew who told me his story years ago.

    The 'Law of Return' is just wishy-washy.

    From Wikipeadia;
    Your right. Israeli and Jewish law are not in accordance with each other.

  6. #66
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    I think something like 50% of Americans said they believed in The Rapture, or something to that effect, in a Newsweek study a little while ago.

  7. #67
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I think something like 50% of Americans said they believed in The Rapture, or something to that effect, in a Newsweek study a little while ago.
    That's quite irrelevant in terms of theology.

  8. #68
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's quite irrelevant in terms of theology.
    That's an irrelevant observation. And no one specific interpretation of theology matters much, people take what they want from it and use it for their own ends.

  9. #69
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    I say let the giant multi-billion dollar bureaucracy that is lead by the man in the funny hat and dress take a shot at Israel. Could it really cause anymore harm?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #70
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    there is no other place on earth that would have been safer than palestine for jews to be safe? When did the bulk of the jews actually settle there?

    So lets leave religion out of this, as I think most try to. If israel is not a religious state, jsut what right did zionists have to occupy palestine 90 years ago?
    Still no answer to these questions eh?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

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