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  1. #291
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post

    You know, this subject is not about losing and winning an argument. When you'll have lost a few friends within this conflict, maybe you'll understand this. You do not only lack sense or datas, you lack perspective.
    I didn't want to include this quote in my above reply because it would be tasteless. In this post, I am being serious in offering you (even though I don't know you from Jack) my deepest sympathy..because I know you enough to know you and I at least share the human condition. And, loss and pain is universal.

    I feel the same for ALL those who lost loved ones, regardless of side.

    Hence, my statement in my original post:
    But, regardless of 'sides', all blood spill red.

  2. #292
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Arf, arf!!!

    Crocodile's tears!

    Are you aware how much do you idealize yourself, by the way!?
    I think you're the kind of person who cannot admit how wrong they are, or that cannot see themselves as anything but a white knight in shining armor.

    So please, stop this pathetic comedy, would you?

    When you say that "you and I at least share the human condition", well I'm pleased to share my vanity, my stupidity, my ignorance, my selfishness with you. Because that's what really means being a man. Men are vain, stupid, ignorant and selfish, that's what really defines them. But at least, I try to be aware of my own vanity, my stupidity, my ignorance, my selfishness. Are you?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #293
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Are you aware how much do you idealize yourself, by the way!?
    No...tell me more! I love hearing about myself.

    I think you're the kind of people who cannot admit how wrong they are, or that cannot see themselves as anything but a white knight in shining armor.
    I would gladly accept wrong when it is logically, rationally and systematically pointed out to me, by justification of points (and examples), why exactly I'm wrong. I don't take another's 'word' for it.


    Because that's what really means being a man. Men are vain, stupid, ignorant and selfish, that's what really defines them.
    You know some fucked up men.

    But at least, I try to be aware of my own vanity, my stupidity, my ignorance, my selfishness. Are you?
    No. Cuz....I'm a GIRL!!! Thank goodness....cuz according to you, being a man sounds like no fun.

  4. #294
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post

    Idk, something like, Bahamas, or an island of Hawaii, or a little piece of Canada
    Well, Bahamas or an island of Hawaii do sound like an excellent choice! I'm wondering why the Zionist fathers never thought of that in the first place!

    Can we swap it with Israel, folks?

    --

    It makes me remember this old Jewish joke:


    On the top of the Sinai mountain, the Almighty asks Moses where he’d like for the Israelites to settle.
    So Moses explores every facts, check every datas: size, beauty, agricultural potential, climate, peaceful neighbours, mineral richness, and eventually concludes that California would be greatest place to be. Unfortunately, just like it was explained in the Torah, Moses had a speech impediment: he stammered. So he starts replying:
    -“Ca - Ca - Ca…”
    -“What? Canaan? That rocky desert place? I can’t quite see why you’d want to go there, but if that is your wish, Moses, so be it.”
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 01-19-2009 at 05:36 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #295
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post

    No. Cuz....I'm a GIRL!!! Thank goodness....cuz according to you, being a man sounds like no fun.
    That's what I said: you want to date with me!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #296
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    The power of ideology, you mean?

    Marxist he was, marxist he remained.

    That speech was full of clichés, predictable, and hence, rather uninteresting because it will solve nothing, but remove the guilt of a few extreme-left european militants.
    Can you please refrain from calling me a Marxist just for a day at least?

    For starters, I am no Marxist let alone Orthodox Marxist. I do not believe in a violent proletarian revolution, as I am nearly a pacifist. If you insist on defining me by my political views I would very much like it if you call me a democratic socialist instead.

    Secondly, you may be right the speech may not solve anything, but if saying predictable clichés means telling the truth then so be it.

    Finally, if that last sentence is in any way a reference to me, I would like to make it very clear I have no guilt towards Jews nor Israelis in anyway what so ever; why would I, it is not like I personal have ever did any harm on to them have I?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I do not consider someone who has lobbied for the Hamas for several years now, as especially believable, or even someone with whom you could be associated with.
    What part is not believable, if any?

    As far as I am concerned, the only part that one could consider misleading is where he made a comparison of the Warsaw Ghetto to Gaza, as obviously Israel does not want to completely eliminate and exterminate all Palestinian like the Nazi's did to the Jews. That said, they are hardly treated that much better; are Al-Shati, Jabalia, Rafah camps all that much nicer?

    Just out of interest, can you please tell me exactly how and when Gerald Kaufman lobbied for Hamas as I am generally not aware of that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    The fact he's a Jew changes nothing. There are idiots and fools everywhere.


    I never said it did, you are putting words into my mouth.:steam:

    Not only that, but can you please remind me who is the most prolific poster on this conflict at this forum, who seems seldom able to criticise Israel compared to supporting Israel, and seems to think anyone who does so must be ''abysmally ignorant people'' or biased as they have hidden motives like non-existent ''Orthodox Marxist'' beliefs?

    The fact you seem to think I am any more anti-Israeli than anti-Palestinian shows how arrogant you are being on this subject. I have said many positive and negative things about each; a number of times both in person, and the three years I have been on INTP Central and the best part of two years on this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  7. #297
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    It's life and war is (likely) a part of it, but this conflict is absurd - one, Israel's superiority over the virtually unarmed Gazans, and two, the approach Hamas takes in it... to withdraw into the civilians that's then drawing Israeli fire. But the situation is rougher with the politics as the Gazans themselves elected Hamas!

    With over 1,100 casualties and 5,600 wounded, the message is sent - there won't be peace between them.

  8. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    The power of ideology, you mean?

    Marxist he was, marxist he remained.

    That speech was full of clichés, predictable, and hence, rather uninteresting because it will solve nothing, but remove the guilt of a few extreme-left european militants.

    I do not consider someone who has lobbied for the Hamas for several years now, as especially believable, or even someone with whom you could be associated with.

    The fact he's a Jew changes nothing. There are idiots and fools everywhere.
    An antisemitic commie, that's what he really is.

  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by persianness View Post
    the approach Hamas takes in it... to withdraw into the civilians that's then drawing Israeli fire.
    I keep hearing that, and I keep wondering how can one not notice how absurd these claims are. Hamas is not an autonomous army brought to the Palestinians from Kinshasa, they are born from within the Palestinian population, they live within it, they are part of it. They can only be among this population. They is no place else where they could be.

  10. #300
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Can you please refrain from calling me a Marxist just for a day at least?
    But you are a Marxist, I'm sorry. And a very orthodox and predictable one, so far.

    For starters, I am no Marxist let alone Orthodox Marxist. I do not believe in a violent proletarian revolution, as I am nearly a pacifist. If you insist on defining me by my political views I would very much like it if you call me a democratic socialist instead.
    Being a marxist doesn't mean you have to believe in a "violent proletarian revolution" (Have you read Marx on that subject?). It's rather a question of Ideology, how do you analyze and perceive society, and what answers you see.

    You know, I'm a leftist as well, and half of my family is marxist. So believe me, I know how and when to recognize marxist ideology at work. There are even some points with which I may agree with a few marxist thinkers (especially in sociology: do you know Marcuse or Bourdieu for instance?). But politically and philosophically, well... not at all. Let's say Hannah Arendt has cured me of this "reading grid", and I've became quite anti-Ideology since.

    Anyway, do you know this interesting joke:

    -What is Kantian philosophy?
    It's seeking a black cat in a dark room.

    -What is Marxist philosophy?
    It's seeking a black cat that doesn't exist in a dark room.

    -What is Leninist philosophy?
    It's seeking a black cat that doesn't exist in a dark room, and pretend you have found it.


    So maybe you'll figure the differences out.

    ---

    So anyway. This MP (Kaufman) was wrong when he was young, and he's still wrong today, some fifty years later. The names and the causes have changed, but not the mistakes, because his thinking uses the same flawed, impractical logic.

    The fact you think I am any more anti-Israeli than anti-Palestinian shows how arrogant you are being on this subject. I have said many positive and negative things about each a number of times both in person, and the three years I have been on INTP Central and the best part of two years on this forum.
    Well, that quote just shows how much you didn't understand my own point.
    It's not a question of being "anti-Israeli" or "being "anti-Palestinian".
    The real fight is between warmongers and negociators, between Falcons and Doves. And that transcends any belonging to either countries or ethnicities.

    But again, it's not that simple either, because there are a lots of falcons who are disguised as doves. For instance, the idea that Israel has no right to exist means that (pragmatically) you are against peace and negociation. This is why I may react as violently towards anti-Zionism, as I may react against genocidal madness of the opposite side (IlyaK).

    Anti-Zionists militants often pretend to be pacifists, but that's not true at all when you consider the effects their idea would have if they were implemented for real. They are in fact one the very reason that causes this conflict to last so long.

    So you see: you have every rights to question or criticize Israel's current foreign policies. You have the right to say that the current assault on Gaza is overkilling, that it's a shame (etc), that some methods used by the IDF are more than questionable.

    In fact, I may even agree.

    I only reacted to bullshits, lies, racism, and (likely) anti-Semitic rants specifically directed against Israel or Palestinians as a whole. That's very different.
    Because here, when I see people making definite conclusions about what the Jews really are, well, I'd say something is obviously wrong. Or when I see blatantly ignorant (and most of the time: biased) stances about the history of this area too.
    For instance, comparing Israel to Apartheid is so incredibly stupid, so far away from the average daily life of an ordinary Arab Israeli that using this incredibly inaccurate metaphor has to mean something else. And I think you guess why, what is the real aim of such lies. Anyway, spreading them will never contribute to promote peace between the two people.

    This conflict doesn't need passionate people. Passionate people are often the real criminals, especially when they are convinced to defend the "right" cause (Good vs Evil; Us vs Them; et caetera). And yet, what you read here, in this very thread, are nothing but passionate responses.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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