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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Come, come Nihilen. Ataturk compared to Hitler.

    Don't get all emotional, now.:steam:

    In Russian the words great & terrible are interchangable (- "Groznyy").

    I think this sums up alot of high achievers in politico-military circles. You can't be great without occassionally being a bit terrible.

    Perhaps his legacy, as you say, leaves something to be desired.

    You gotta admire a man that could drink like Ataturk.
    Why would I become emotional ? I don't compare people to Hitler the American way, which makes one lose credibility "bush is hitler!!1!", "sadam is hilter!!!1", "obama is hetler111!!".

    But Atatrk is one of the few where the comparison is accurate to many extents. Some claim that Hitler too was "Groznyy", while occasionally being terrible. Yeah, I don't take those seriously.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I don't completely agree, but I think what you're saying has some truth in it. While it's true that people pick leaders who reflect their values, they are often forced to pick the lesser of two evils. Second, politicians are snakey. What they do and say to get elected isn't always how they actually perform. Third, if a wise leader emerged, who knows what would happened. Einstein was asked to lead Israel (but declined). Fourth, by your logic, you yourself are immature, evil, and tyrannic. Your argument overlooks the fact that leaders are almost never elected unanimously.
    By 'their people', I mean the majority of the people, which is what counts in a democracy, and indirectly also counts in dictatorships.

    USA elected Bush, and re-elected him. If he didn't represent them rather well the 1st time, they wouldn't have let him continue. This time they voted Obama, that might mean Americans are coming back to their senses.

  3. #273
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I support the Palestinian people right now because the majority of folks in Gaza are getting mowed over and have nothing to do with Hamas or rockets.

    They, just like the rest of us, just want to live in peace, eat, work, have a semblance of normalcy. They're basically third-worlded people facing an onslaught of superior and unecessary military force.

    Their stories are being drowned out in the US media and their supporters are GREATLY outnumbered in air time, numbers, and $$$. They aren't even being allowed to have their stories heard, let alone judged fairly and that's not right.

    In this case, they are the underdog.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  4. #274
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  5. #275
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    unecessary military force.
    How is it unnecessary, and what is the alternative?

  6. #276
    Senior Member Anentropic IxTx's Avatar
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  7. #277
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    The power of ideology, you mean?

    Marxist he was, marxist he remained.

    That speech was full of clichs, predictable, and hence, rather uninteresting because it will solve nothing, but remove the guilt of a few extreme-left european militants.

    I do not consider someone who has lobbied for the Hamas for several years now, as especially believable, or even someone with whom you could be associated with.

    The fact he's a Jew changes nothing. There are idiots and fools everywhere.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #278
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anentropic IxTx View Post
    Anyone else here support the Palestinian cause?
    Because they need advocates.
    Let's see, one side shrouds their justification within religious ideology in hopes to garner support of realizing a self-fulfilling prophecy written in a compilation of old books, saying that one day they will find their 'home' and take back their land. God told me so! rwiiiiighhhht.

    *when really, it is a geo-political move on their part (maybe with some added sentimentality of above-said justification).

    While the other side decide that they are fed up with an unbalanced fight where the other kid's much more powerful bigger bro (US) starts to help him out by providing ammunition, and all they have at their feet (literally) are rocks.
    So, they go a little.....extreme. They say, 'fuck fighting fair'.

    And, lines get drawn. Leaders roar. Civilians moan. But, regardless of 'sides', all blood spill red.

  9. #279
    Senior Member Anentropic IxTx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Let's see, one side shrouds their justification within religious ideology in hopes to garner support of realizing a self-fulfilling prophecy written in a compilation of old books, saying that one day they will find their 'home' and take back their land. God told me so! rwiiiiighhhht.

    *when really, it is a geo-political move on their part (maybe with some added sentimentality of above-said justification).

    While the other side decide that they are fed up with an unbalanced fight where the other kid's much more powerful bigger bro (US) starts to help him out by providing ammunition, and all they have at their feet (literally) are rocks.
    So, they go a little.....extreme. They say, 'fuck fighting fair'.

    And, lines get drawn. Leaders roar. Civilians moan. But, regardless of 'sides', all blood spill red.

  10. #280
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Let's see, one side shrouds their justification within religious ideology in hopes to garner support of realizing a self-fulfilling prophecy written in a compilation of old books, saying that one day they will find their 'home' and take back their land. God told me so! rwiiiiighhhht.
    Stupidity and ignorance.

    You know nothing of this country, don't you?
    And probably nothing about the history of Zionism too?

    I think you are confusing the Muslim side (which sees this conflict as genuinely religious), with the Israeli side, which sees this conflict primarily as a political matter of SURVIVAL.

    The majority of Israelis are either agnostics or atheists, just in case you didn't realize it yet. The fanatical orthodox settlers you see in the medias represent barely 2% of Israeli population. While I'm not sure that Hamas militants represents only 2% of the entire Palestinian population, if you see what I mean...

    The mere existence of Israel is considered as a slap in their face by the majority of Muslims, because this state was created in the middle of Dar al Islam. And since the core ideology of sunni Islam is proselytism and expansion, it simply cannot admit the possibility that its global influence and values are shrinking. Especially when you consider that in the Quran, Jews are considered as sub-humans (descendants of Apes and Pigs) that the Prophet had to personally exterminate during his conquests. So the fact that Jews still exist, and dare to actually defeat Muslims (militarily) is a negation of everything that is written or claimed in their holy book. It's as simple as that.
    According to the majority of the current Islamist leaders, the mere existence of Israel is a monstruous blasphemy, hence their obsession to destroy this state and genocide its inhabitants, whatever the costs. The Darfur or the civil war in Algeria can wait, even if the death toll is thousand times higher: Israel will always have the top priority in Muslim medias.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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