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  1. #251
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    This shit will never get solved until both sides stop blaming each other and take responsibility for their actions. Both sides need to look at what they've done and what they're doing. The blaming game, which is the only thing you see in the media, never ever produces anything but defensiveness, anger, and territoriality, and more blaming, so it all cycles. That ruins trust, which makes it even harder to stop all the rhetoric, for fear that your empathy and patience will get exploited by the other.

    I think there needs to be a separate organization formed of Israelis and Arabs who meet consistently (every other day or so) of people who are dedicated to cooperation, communication and responsibility. The group could make recommendations about policy, and having both Arab and Jewish constituents, could act as a voice of the people, encouraging others to identify with them, rather than being a completely alien organization like the UN, which no one will identify with.

    A big part of the problem, imo, is politicians. We need to find leaders with enormous self-awareness and wisdom, and I don't know of too many of those, especially in the Middle East.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Could the French Resistance have toppled Nazi Germany on its own? No, all they could do was subvert on occasion until the Allied forces had a foothold.

    It's got nothing to do with right and wrong. No one is right or wrong.
    Hamas is part of an alliance. Geezuskryst.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    This shit will never get solved until both sides stop blaming each other and take responsibility for their actions. Both sides need to look at what they've done and what they're doing. The blaming game, which is the only thing you see in the media, never ever produces anything but defensiveness, anger, and territoriality, and more blaming, so it all cycles. That ruins trust, which makes it even harder to stop all the rhetoric, for fear that your empathy and patience will get exploited by the other.

    I think there needs to be a separate organization formed of Israelis and Arabs who meet consistently (every other day or so) of people who are dedicated to cooperation, communication and responsibility. The group could make recommendations about policy, and having both Arab and Jewish constituents, could act as a voice of the people, encouraging others to identify with them, rather than being a completely alien organization like the UN, which no one will identify with.

    A big part of the problem, imo, is politicians. We need to find leaders with enormous self-awareness and wisdom, and I don't know of too many of those, especially in the Middle East.
    Religion: The elephant in the room.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    Hamas is part of an alliance. Geezuskryst.
    And what do they do? Sit around and fire rockets into the country with decades better technology in their backyard?

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    And what do they do? Sit around and fire rockets into the country with decades better technology in their backyard?
    Already went through this. You just closed the circle. You're a sophist.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    A big part of the problem, imo, is politicians. We need to find leaders with enormous self-awareness and wisdom, and I don't know of too many of those, especially in the Middle East.
    If only we learn from the US example and elect worthy wise leaders such as W.Bush and Bill Clinton.

  5. #255
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Religion: The elephant in the room.
    It's true. One element on this whole thing is having religious leaders step up and condone violence, on either practical or religious levels. There are even problems with that, though, since religion and violence have become so intertwined, and anti-violence rhetoric is, to my understand, silenced with violence (or branded as heretical). Security is a major prerequisite to any possible change. The danger, of course, is that the more security you have, the less you look like other Palestinian people, and the harder it is to identify with you. I don't know. I have some ideas, but I don't know.

  6. #256
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    If only we learn from the US example and elect worthy wise people such as W.Bush and Bill Clinton.
    I'm not going to play this game with you, but I will say that I am glad Obama is in power right now. He strikes me as thoughtful and caring.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    Already went through this. You just closed the circle. You're a sophist.
    The point is that an alliance only means something if it does something worthwhile, which it's not doing in this case.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I'm not going to play this game with you, but I will say that I am glad Obama is in power right now. He strikes me as thoughtful and caring.
    What I meant is that it's too easy to blame the leaders. The leaders practically always represent their people well.

    If a leader is stupid, immature or 'evil' and tyrannic, they're simply the image or the consequence of the people they represent/rule.

  9. #259
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    The Middle East needs to secularize and liberalize, like Turkey, which has shown it to be possible. And, very slowly, it seems to be happening.

    If you're a Muslim, and serious about your religion, I can see how Israel would be a big slap on the face.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The Middle East needs to secularize and liberalize, like Turkey, which has shown it to be possible. And, very slowly, it seems to be happening.
    Bad, bad example.

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