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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitzy View Post
    yes
    spanish/russian jew :p
    Nice

    So, your making Aliyah. Is your family Orthodox?

  2. #242
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    lol no way. reform. we're not that crazy
    She talks pretty but says mean things

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You don't think they would've been cleaned from the face of the Earth had they fought in the beginning?
    Right now, I know they have no option but to fight, whether by reasoning or by experience. Just compare the cases of the occupied Golan heights, and the freed southern Lebanon.

    And there is no "Their land." From what time period? The Kingdom of Judea was even larger than all of Israel today before anything known as Palestine or Palestinians existed.
    It was also before anything known as the state of Israel ever existed. And your point ?

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Actually, they lost their land either way, to begin with. By fighting, they first lost more of their land, then for all practical purposes lost the moral legitimacy of their claim when allied Arab states ethnically cleansed the Sephardic Jews from their own lands, leading the Sephardic Jews to appropriate the vacated land. By continued fighting (as well as having their descendants kept as perpetual refugees by the UN and "allied" Arab states), they kept losing more and more of their land while repeatedly missing opportunities to make the best of a bad situation for themselves and their descendants. Eventually, this constant state of resistance, lack of assimilation opportunities, low-grade warfare and obsessive hatred for their opponents led to Palestinian society degrading into a fundamentally sick society (not helped by the fact that Israel initially supported Hamas as a wedge against Fatah). Continued fighting has brought the Palestinians nothing but pain.
    I can never defend what the Arab states did -except Lebanon. Arab states just did everything wrong.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitzy View Post
    i agree. im actually moving to israel next year
    Ah, Salam impossible-to-reach-future-neighbor.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    It was also before anything known as the state of Israel ever existed. And your point ?
    That by focusing on what was once had, no peace will be attained. They don't have the physical means to gain territory, so if they gain any territory at all, it will be through the release of it by another entity. It's more effective gaining allies through friendship than indiscriminate destruction. Right?

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That by focusing on what was once had, no peace will be attained. They don't have the physical means to gain territory, so if they gain any territory at all, it will be through the release of it by another entity. It's more effective gaining allies through friendship than indiscriminate destruction. Right?
    That's why the west bank under Fatah is FILLED with Israeli settlers and Israeli checkpoints and Israeli military controlling their every movement. Yes. Sure. Friendship.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    That's why the west bank under Fatah is FILLED with Israeli settlers and Israeli checkpoints and Israeli military controlling their every movement. Yes. Sure. Friendship.
    That's precisely what they should be doing. Have you ever looked at it from their perspective? They have the military advantage, therefore upon an aggressor they should exercise it if they value success.

    The Palestinians don't, therefore they must use different means, or be destroyed.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That's precisely what they should be doing. Have you ever looked at it from their perspective? They have the military advantage, therefore upon an aggressor they should exercise it if they value success.

    The Palestinians don't, therefore they must use different means, or be destroyed.
    That's what we were told.
    That's also what French were told under the Vichy regime.

    Ah, too many examples, you wouldn't understand fuckin' Ghandi boy.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    That's what we were told.
    That's also what French were told under the Vichy regime.

    Ah, too many examples, you wouldn't understand fuckin' Ghandi boy.
    Could the French Resistance have toppled Nazi Germany on its own? No, all they could do was subvert on occasion until the Allied forces had a foothold.

    It's got nothing to do with right and wrong. No one is right or wrong.

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