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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    How so ?
    Just stop firing rockets into the towns.

  2. #32
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    That would be awesome, but that's not going to happen. Hamas was the Palestinians' last refuge it seems, after all else failed (and this last refuge will fail too), and it only lately gained mainstream support.

    Yet the Israeli side makes it seem as if Hamas was the cause of the whole conflict, in fact it's a consequence. Did Palestinians have more rights before Hamas had this support ?
    From above:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    I don't think debating whose fault it is is useful either...

    Solutions are more interesting to debate, right now, , I have no idea what that should be.
    You say you have no idea. I proposed an idea. You said "it's not going to happen".

    Well in that case, I'm sorry to say, the Palestinians are shit out of luck.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    From above:



    You say you have no idea. I proposed an idea. You said "it's not going to happen".

    Well in that case, I'm sorry to say, the Palestinians are shit out of luck.
    Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal said Friday during his meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Moscow that “Israel must withdraw to the 1967 borders and abide by the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return if it wants peace.”
    Hamas: Peace with Israel for withdrawal to ’67 borders - Israel News, Ynetnews

    There ya go. Solved ?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Just stop firing rockets into the towns.
    This didn't work in the Golan (South of Syria which is still occupied), while facing Israel by force liberated southern Lebanon in 2000.

  5. #35
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal said Friday during his meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Moscow that “Israel must withdraw to the 1967 borders and abide by the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return if it wants peace.”

    There ya go. Solved ?
    Ah yes. About that. Palestinian "refugees" (i.e. those who were not allowed to return in 1948 and all their descendants) will never be allowed into Israel, because there are as many of them out there as Israelis, which would mean the State of Israel as a Jewish homeland would cease to exist.

    Although that would take care of Hamas's whole "destruction of Israel" thing in their chapter.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    which would mean the State of Israel as a Jewish homeland would cease to exist.
    And that would be a bad thing because ... ?

  7. #37
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    And that would be a bad thing because ... ?
    *sigh* Honestly man, you are either not very bright or EXTREMELY one sided.

    It was decided (with UN approval) that Jews are to have their homeland so that next time the Holocaust starts to happen, Jews would have a country to go to, instead of being denied access and passed around like a diseased orphan (see: SS St. Louis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    If you allow a Muslim majority in Israel, chances are, it would become just another country where Jews are persecuted.

    Anyway, I've stated my argument here sufficiently for any reasonable person to make up their mind about the topic at hand. So I'm done.

    Enjoy your thread, Nihilen.

  8. #38
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    What would you suggest the Israeli's do?
    Withdraw to pre '67 borders, give the Palestinians a homeland, in exchange for a guarantee of no more terrorism against Israel, as well as the removal of the 'death to Israel' part(s) of the Palestinian political philosophy.

    If, post this establishment of a Palestinian state, terrorism continues, rain down military punishment on pro-Hamas leaders and their physical power bases. Israel would be in a *much* more morally correct position in this case, and I think a lot of the international opposition to Israeli military strikes on Gaza would be nullified.

  9. #39
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    I am not one sided, but I do oppose ethnocentrism and ultra-nationalism. And I oppose any nation that claims it's exclusive for a religion and/or ethnicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Jews are to have their homeland so that next time the Holocaust starts to happen, Jews would have a country to go to
    So, the need for a homeland to the Jews is based on a speculation that the whole world still hates Jews, and they cannot survive except among each others.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    *sigh* Honestly man, you are either not very bright or EXTREMELY one sided.

    It was decided (with UN approval) that Jews are to have their homeland so that next time the Holocaust starts to happen, Jews would have a country to go to, instead of being denied access and passed around like a diseased orphan (see: SS St. Louis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    If you allow a Muslim majority in Israel, chances are, it would become just another country where Jews are persecuted.
    It wasnt very bright or was particularly one sided for the british to colonize and divide up the region at the end of ww 1, effectively establishing the state of israel after hundreds of years of ottoman rule, but that is the situation. The UN gave away land that was already occupied, similar to the destruction of native lands and people for the establishment of the american colonies and later nation. However, technology has progressed from arrows against rifles so the affected here use primitive rockets.

    If the idea was to create a safe place for jews, they sure fucked up this one. There is nowhere else in the world that would have been more practical? Nowhere that might have resulted in less bloodshed over the years? Or was the entire point for the "holy" land to be controlled by a different group for the sake of historical religious power?

    I mean seriously, talk about being bright. Stick a group of people that have historically been persecuted in a region which disrupts millions and millions of people which might do funny shit like fire rockets and blow up buses and public gatherings.

    The random rocket shooting and suicide bombing are barbaric, but so are the conditions which led to them. How many palestinian homes have been levled to create new israeli settlements? When basic human necessities are withheld for so long, why does anyone expect anything less than barbarism in response?

    Would a mixed society really result in religious persecution? Are there not synagogues in iran? Are there not jews in parliamentary positions in iran? Granted, Palestine is not iran, but iran has not been denied basic human necessities for years.

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